UK government to block Scottish gender bill - first time a devolved government has been blocked from passing a law.

[The perfect fumble]

Give over lol

She is backtracking faster than an Italian tank!

Nic is having a mare.

We should be grateful to Sturgeon and the SNP, they thought they could steamroller this in Scotland then sit back and chill while the nasty Tories raised two fingers to devolved power and thwarted the will of the Scottish people.

But they misread the room.

All the polls show the Scots do not support the SNP on this and as for that Tory two fingered salute to the Scottish Assembly? It has instead raised a rare north of the border cheer of "Thank God for Westminster!"

Question Time came from Glasgow this week and of course the issue was raised, it didn't go down too well and that's pretty indicative of how it's being viewed across Scotland.



Some political commentators are speculating that this issue has seriously dented support for Scottish independence.

It's not gone unnoticed south of the border. The right wing media has seen the damage it has done to Sturgeon and are using it now to see how much damage they can do to Starmer.

Sunak ran with it yesterday.

The moral of this sorry saga? Don't take women for granted, and on a personal note, don't piss off Scottish women! Unless their name is Nicola Sturgeon of course.

 

[The perfect fumble]

There's nothing unreasonable or controversial about what she said today. It's possible to believe that some people have gender dysphoria and that others are simply confused or acting out for an ulterior motivation.

Then we agree.

If as you say....

some people have gender dysphoria

And...

that others are simply confused or acting out for an ulterior motivation.

Then it should be the preserve of medical professionals to help these individuals discover whether they are indeed dysphoric or as you say "confused" or "acting out for an ulterior motivation", such as those who have autogynaphila and are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as female, or chancers like the rapist Adam Graham, or are autistic, or gay, or have been sexually abused, or are effected by any number of things that life throws at them, particularly in childhood and adolescence.

Your post is as succinct a case as I've seen against the idea of self ID.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Then we agree.

If as you say....

And...


Then it should be the preserve of medical professionals to help these individuals to discover whether they are indeed dysphoric or as you say "confused" or "acting out for an ulterior motivation", such as those who have autogynaphila and are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as female, or chancers like the rapist Adam Graham. Or simply autistic, or gay, or have been sexually abused, or any number of things that life throws at you, particularly in childhood and adolescence.

Your post is as succinct a case as I've seen against the idea of self ID.

No because you can easily rebut any presumptionfor supporting an individual's self-ID in cases with evidence like the above.

The problem you have is that you act on the assumption that the majority of trans identified people fall in your grouping of confused or predatory. Statistics don't support that, and the new self-ID law has very little to do with the cases of prisoners you have highlighted.

Self-ID doesn't overrule risk assessments that indicate certain prisoners shouldn't have access to vulnerable groups. And no one ever said it should.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No because you can easily rebut any presume for supporting an individual's self-ID in cases with evidence like the above.

You'll need to expand on that, because genuinely I'm not sure what you're getting at.

The problem you have is that you act on the assumption that the majority of trans identified people fall in your grouping of confused or predatory. Statistics don't support that, and the new self-ID law has very little to do with the cases of prisoners you have highlighted.

Notwithstanding your missassumption, what statistics are you referring to?

Self-ID doesn't overrule risk assessments that indicate certain prisoners shouldn't have access to vulnerable groups. And no one ever said it should.

Risk assessment is a dead end, it's a fig leaf to cover the absurdity of self id. We don't do a risk assessment for every man entering women only spaces, for the simple reason that men are not allowed into women only spaces.

The law as it stands fudged the issue because when it was drafted it was assumed to be addressing a tiny number of transsexuals, that's not the case now, besides, prisons might be making the news today, but the issue is far wider than that and risk assessment, in its fig leaf absurdity, simply doesn't apply to things like this....

It won't take you long to scan this, it's from Henrietta Freeman, a severely disabled woman.....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1585669235749146625.html

and....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1603022204467351556.html

Given Henrietta's circumstance, what's the solution?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

You'll need to expand on that, because genuinely I'm not sure what you're getting at.



Notwithstanding your missassumption, what statistics are you referring to?



Risk assessment is a dead end, it's a fig leaf to cover the absurdity of self id. We don't do a risk assessment for every man entering women only spaces, for the simple reason that men are not allowed into women only spaces.

The law as it stands fudged the issue because when it was drafted it was assumed to be addressing a tiny number of transsexuals, that's not the case now, besides, prisons might be making the news today, but the issue is far wider than that and risk assessment, in its fig leaf absurdity, simply doesn't apply to things like this....

It won't take you long to scan this, it's from Henrietta Freeman, a severely disabled woman.....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1585669235749146625.html

and....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1603022204467351556.html

Given Henrietta's circumstance, what's the solution?

Home care is specifically exempt from equality legislation. It is okay to discriminate on the basis of sex.

What is the impact of Scotland's self-id on this?

But let's assume they recruited a transexual home carer from the phillipines, if they pass well enough, the disabled autistic person may not even notice they are transgender. They receive high quality care and have a good relationship with their carer.

But If they don't pass, and trigger the patients concerns then there isn't a therapeutic relationship and the best interests of the patient compel the carer to be reassigned away from caring for that patient or employment terminated.

 

[domalino]

In the latest polling 62% of people said they had no interest/were not bothered/paid not attention to this news topic.

 

[blueparrot]

We should be grateful to Sturgeon and the SNP, they thought they could steamroller this in Scotland then sit back and chill while the nasty Tories raised two fingers to devolved power and thwarted the will of the Scottish people.

But they misread the room.

All the polls show the Scots do not support the SNP on this and as for that Tory two fingered salute to the Scottish Assembly? It has instead raised a rare north of the border cheer of "Thank God for Westminster!"

Question Time came from Glasgow and of course the issue was raised, it didn't go down too well and that's pretty indicative of how it's being viewed across Scotland.



Some political commentators are speculating that this issue has seriously dented support for Scottish independence.

It's not gone unnoticed south of the border. The right wing media has seen the damage it has done to Sturgeon and are using it now to see how much damage they can do to Starmer.

Sunak ran with it yesterday.

The moral of this sorry saga? Don't take women for granted, and on a personal note, don't piss off Scottish women! Unless their name is Nicola Sturgeon of course.

They didn't steam roller anything, they voted in a democratcally elected parliament. It was overruled on the whim of one un elected man. Or did I miss the vote in Westminster on whether they should over rule Holyrood ?

 

[blueparrot]

In the latest polling 62% of people said they had no interest/were not bothered/paid not attention to this news topic.

Correct ,because I'd guess most people are like me and see a strong argument on both sides can't decide. So leave it to those that are affected by it to have an opinion, not stick my nose into a topic I don't need to have a strong opinion on, because what's it to me ?

 

[The perfect fumble]

They didn't steam roller anything, they voted in a democratcally elected parliament. It was overruled on the whim of one un elected man. Or did I miss the vote in Westminster on whether they should over rule Holyrood ?

The Scottish secretary used section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 to halt the gender recognition bill after a review by UK government lawyers, because they were concerned the bill would have an “adverse impact” on UK-wide equalities law.

This became a particular concern after a judgement from Scotland’s highest court, only a few weeks before the final vote, which ruled that – for the purposes of the 2010 Equality Act, the meaning of “sex” should include transgender women in possession of a gender recognition certificate.

The bill's process through the Scottish Parliament, culminated in an unprecedented two days of late night sittings, hence steamrolling.

 

[blueparrot]

The Scottish secretary used section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 to halt the gender recognition bill after a review by UK government lawyers, because they were concerned the bill would have an “adverse impact” on UK-wide equalities law.

This became a particular concern after a judgement from Scotland’s highest court, only a few weeks before the final vote, which ruled that – for the purposes of the 2010 Equality Act, the meaning of “sex” should include transgender women in possession of a gender recognition certificate.

The bill's process through the Scottish Parliament, culminated in an unprecedented two days of late night sittings, hence steamrolling.

So I'm right, no vote at Westminster, sounds fair.