United thread 2020/21

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BlueSkinz said:
Red talking sense:

"A rare voice of reason, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the obvious flaws in the current situation and people's frenzy. I see the protesting fanbase is generally split in two camps:
a) A benevolent billionaire to take over the Glazers and make us the highest spending club in the world. This implies either the new owner would pump their own money into the club, beyond the price of acquiring it, which I imagine fans won't be happy with a leveraged buy-out, like the Glazers did, or they don't take dividends, which is the other huge gripe with the current owners. It just begs the question, why would any billionaire spend £4-5bn of their money in buying a huge asset that won't make them any money unless they decide to sell it? Some would say "for the brand power and recognition" and I would answer that if a person is able to spend £4bn on a football club, they have enough power. The only other legitimate reason I could think of is to legitimise their business and persona. Like a Saudi crown prince, Chinese tycoon or some ex-USSR fossil fuels magnate.
b) The 50%+1 ownership model where the club would be "owned" by its supporters. I think people haven't really thought about this one at all. First of all, in order for the ownership to change from Glazers to XXXXX amount of supporters, the latter need to come up with the money to buy the 50%+1 share off the Glazer family and partners. I really, really, really doubt people could come up with that kind of money. Let's make a mental math exercise:
  • Let's say 50% of the club are currently worth £2bn
  • Let's assume willing supporters organise and are willing to attempt buying off that 50% share and the total amount of those is 100,000 (this is being very, very, very optimistic)
  • 2,000,000,000 divided by 100,000 = £20,000 per supporter
I don't know about other people but I believe saying that a 100k supporters would come out with £20k each to basically donate so that "the people" could own the club is.....naive, to put it nicely.

But ok, let's assume even that actually happens. What then? The club is 50%+1 owned by the supporters. That means club management need to be elected on mandates. So, we enter the world of politics, populism, promises and consequences beyond the end of the current mandate. I urge people to read more on the reasons why Real Madrid and Barcelona are in dire financial state right now. It has a lot to do with the key words I underlined in the previous sentence.

Then some point to the German ownership model and more specifically to Bayern Munchen. Again, I suggest people do some reading on the topic and also understand that such a model exists in specific circumstances where it is the norm with very few exceptions (Bayern themselves can be counted as exception, RB Leipzig are another one) and to even consider it possible in the UK, it would mean ALL clubs must transition to a 50%+1 ownership model. I don't want to say that's impossible but it's damn close to it.

So, what does that leave us with? Violent, angry and loud protesters who are such a small fraction of the club's fanbase that if they weren't violent nobody would even notice them. Other are Social Media heroes who post angry messages with hashtags and support to ideas they generally do not understand.

I believe the owners, the staff, the players and the PL will all want this to end very soon because it is, at best, an unnecessary nuissance, or at worst, an attempt to set a very dangerous precedent where private property ownership is challenged by rioting consumers and is the football's equivalent of the Capitol Hill insurrection. What's next? Overthrow the Coca-Cola Company management because Coke consumers do not like their advertising model?

What do I think is going to happen? The club will invite several protester representatives to "constructive dialogue talks" which will take place for a while and then they will create a new structure within the club for something like "supporter stakeholder supervision" which will be sold as a reasonable compromise as the owners have listened to fans and have taken actions to ensure their voice continues to be heard and is part of the club going forward.

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One small thing I forgot to add:

The reason why Neville, Carragher and the whole pleiad of Sky and BT pundits are supporting the protests now and are emphasizing on the Super League as "the stroke that broke the camel's back" is not because they are defenders of the game. It is because the Super League model would render their jobs worthless if the Premier League and Champions League are no longer the top competitions. They understand that very well and their employers have certainly made it abundantly clear of the existential threat there.

They (and many other people) are quoting arguments that are at best wishful thinking, and in reality just naivety. Even on here, people have been dreaming for a competition a lot like the Super League for decades and are too blinded by their collective mob anger now to really consider the facts. Sure, a reserved seat at the table doesn't sound right. But will it affect competitiveness? You could ask the NBA/NHL/NFL stars that question. Or maybe someone thinks those are not the top leagues in the world when it comes to basketball/hockey/American football?

But I digress, this is not about the Super League. I don't particularly care about it, I've always been a fan of the Premier League first and foremost and would be happy if the Super League never comes to fruition. But it is about the protests and the Glazers (who, by the way, also own the current NFL Super Bowl winners..). And the media who are being incredibly irresponsible in defending violent and criminal behavior. Some of the things Neville, Carragher, Keane and Richards said yesterday in the studio should be reviewed and threated as inciting an angry mob, in my opinion. And the worst part is they're doing it out of self-interest, not any love for the game. But people are too angry to see it."

Fans who were against today's protests

I am sad a few people attracted the attention the wrong way, but I think there should be effort to try to give as much spotlight as possible to the majority of the people who were there to send a strong message. I don't know what is the right answer, I don't think anyone has £4b to spend on a...
www.redcafe.net www.redcafe.net
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Am i the only one who whilst agreeing with everything in the above post also has a sneaking suspicion that Neville is positioning himself to be recognised as the 'future of football'? Either in english football or perhaps as a figurehead for New Ughnited when our existing friends in charge pop off?
 
We are their worst nightmare. All the tweets and likes they can get for 'we don't care about you' doesn't negate that. If it wasn't for us, their ineptitude would still allow them a lot of success over past decade be it Glazers or not. They would have kept winning things and have been fine with it. We broke them, but hey, at least they can celebrate us not winning a 'real treble' !!
 
It seems like my post has been taken wrongly by a minority.
At end of the day we are all meant be football fans, as much as we dislike united, Liverpool etc. We shouldn’t be in joy that their clubs are getting ruined by greedy businessmen.
You never know 1 day maybe our oil money dries up and we are bought out by a greedy American owner who bleeds the club dry. We wouldn’t like that , it’s about protecting the game, protecting football and what is right.

There is no class in kicking the enemy when they are down because we are ok. You never know what is round the corner.

Football has been around a longer time then all of us alive today. If things don’t change regarding rules and ownerships then football as we know it will not survive. The rich will get richer , clubs which are the beating heart of cities will seize to exist, the game will be ruined. We need all be united against this and stand up for what’s right about football.
The clubs belong to the fans !
 
I'm guessing the Glazers care as much after yesterdays events about the fans as they did 16 years ago, their fans obviously think differently. I am predicating tumbleweed between now and Friday.....

Glazer.jpg
 
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