US Politics Thread

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I keep reading that the US is “fucked”. I wonder how much history those who claim this to be true have read. And by that I especially mean military history as well as socio-political history.

The GOP is doing what cornered rats do — fighting any way they can to stay alive. They are taking radical anti-democratic approaches in TN by expelling members for nothing more than standing with anti-gun protestors, passing insane and likely unconstitutional laws in ID regarding out of state travel for abortions, defending not just a criminal but an arch-criminal Presidential candidate and dozens of other J6 criminals despite a “law and order” platform (hint: it isn’t), lying in outrageous ways over and over and over, attempting to disenfranchise voters who traditionally support the other side (especially the young). NONE of this wins broader elections because to win elections, you need moderates. It’s nothing more than pulling out any and all stops to anger anyone not a crystallized member of the hard right. In part they’re doing this because they’re fucking stupid and fucking amoral because those types are attracted to extremist perspectives that rely on hurt and damage of the other side, not compromise. In part they are emboldened by gerrymandering that has allowed these types to flourish. But the GOP is dying. And the biggest demographic wave in America is entering their voting years and turning out in droves. And they ain’t voting GOP.

This isn’t a new direction — it’s a last and desperate stand. It’s taking it all down with you. It’s burning the village before you retreat and concede the territory to the opposition. In many ways such incredibly extremist tactics are precisely what we should expect and have seen over and over agin from despots who are losing the war, not winning it. Because it’s all they have to cause fear and harm. Because they’re losing their grip on the power that caused it before.

There’s no doubt this is going to get uglier. But that because the GOP is LOSING, not because they’re winning.

I'd argue it is fucked. They had a President who was elected in large part due the interference and mass misinformation managed by their main adversary in Russia and overseen by a madman dictator. The President wants to be a dictator.
The US was subject to an insurrection, and has done nothing about it despite the evidence of who organised it being crystal clear. What kind of nation stands by and lets that happen to itself?
It has systems by which basic human rights like abortion can be outlawed.
It has systems that have allowed for mass ownership of lethal firearms resulting in mass murder almost daily and do nothing about it.
It is built on religious beliefs that seem to excuse incredibly dangerous behaviour and acts.
It has a judicial system that is a mystery to most other first world countries and allows for a break between the fundamental separation of powers; judges are political appointments. That leads to chaos, corruption, and all other problems.
The US has a race issue that shows no sign of improving at any time now than it has since the civil war.
It has a constitution that was written centuries ago that is interpreted by various factions so wildly at variance with eachother that is basically a farce and demonstrably not fit for purpose.
It has swathes of poverty stricken areas that no first world country should have.
It is well fucked

 

[AliBobbyJ]

I keep reading that the US is “fucked”. I wonder how much history those who claim this to be true have read. And by that I especially mean military history as well as socio-political history.

It was a rhetorical comment made out of disillusionment, Fog Blue. Back in 2008 when Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This Land Is Your Land .." in front of the Obamas at the Lincoln Memorial I was hugely optimistic. Now that's all but gone, though things like the speech by Gloria Johnson in the Tennessee legislature today still kindle a bit of hope. So says a chap who got here in the year the Mets last won the World Series and recently retired from teaching American history in high school in all the years in between.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It was a rhetorical comment made out of disillusionment, Fog Blue. Back in 2008 when Springsteen & Pete Seeger sang "This Land Is Your Land .." in front of the Obamas at the Lincoln Memorial I was hugely optimistic. Now that's all but gone, though things like the speech by Gloria Johnson in the Tennessee legislature today still kindle a bit of hope. So says a chap who got here in the year the Mets last won the World Series and recently retired from teaching American history in high school in all the years in between.

Fair enough and I understand the feeling, but given your background, how does the GOP “win” from here? And do you think my analogy is off-base (speaking of the Mets)?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I'd argue it is fucked. They had a President who was elected in large part due the interference and mass misinformation managed by their main adversary in Russia and overseen by a madman dictator. The President wants to be a dictator.
The US was subject to an insurrection, and has done nothing about it despite the evidence of who organised it being crystal clear. What kind of nation stands by and lets that happen to itself?
It has systems by which basic human rights like abortion can be outlawed.
It has systems that have allowed for mass ownership of lethal firearms resulting in mass murder almost daily and do nothing about it.
It is built on religious beliefs that seem to excuse incredibly dangerous behaviour and acts.
It has a judicial system that is a mystery to most other first world countries and allows for a break between the fundamental separation of powers; judges are political appointments. That leads to chaos, corruption, and all other problems.
The US has a race issue that shows no sign of improving at any time now than it has since the civil war.
It has a constitution that was written centuries ago that is interpreted by various factions so wildly at variance with eachother that is basically a farce and demonstrably not fit for purpose.
It has swathes of poverty stricken areas that no first world country should have.
It is well fucked

There’s a fair amount of incorrect hyperbole in this and frankly I’m a little surprised. Done nothing? Dozens have been arrested for J6; Trumps legal woes re the insurrection are just beginning. How is the judicial system a mystery? Whether elected or appointed there is always a political aspect to the judicial branch everywhere and anywhere. Your comments on the “race issue” are flat-out ignorant. The constitution has been amended 27 times on major issues and could certainly use more but the US has a process for that.

Meantime, there’s a line miles long of folks who want to study or work here, the nation is still growing, it leads every nation in the world in GDP by at least 50%, has ample land and natural resources to support itself and has a system of governance that still beats authoritarianism hollow despite all its problems and contradictions.

Maybe you’re right and we’re fucked — but not for the reasons you suggest.

 

[BayernMan]

 

[idahoblues]

There’s a fair amount of incorrect hyperbole in this and frankly I’m a little surprised. Done nothing? Dozens have been arrested for J6; Trumps legal woes re the insurrection are just beginning. How is the judicial system a mystery? Whether elected or appointed there is always a political aspect to the judicial branch everywhere and anywhere. Your comments on the “race issue” are flat-out ignorant. The constitution has been amended 27 times on major issues and could certainly use more but the US has a process for that.

Meantime, there’s a line miles long of folks who want to study or work here, the nation is still growing, it leads every nation in the world in GDP by at least 50%, has ample land and natural resources to support itself and has a system of governance that still beats authoritarianism hollow despite all its problems and contradictions.

Maybe you’re right and we’re fucked — but not for the reasons you suggest.

Nah, it'll be right

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Just remember folks, it's always darkest, just before...

Spoiler

it goes pitch black!

Just kidding - I believe in America. We're pushing back on populism, slowly, but my sense is that Americans are fed up with the negativity of the Right and on position after position - from a woman's right to abortion to gun control to climate change - the Right is on the wrong side of popular sentiment.

As the actual saying goes, "It's always darkest, just before the dawn," and from my perspective there's a lot of light on the horizon.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Fair enough and I understand the feeling, but given your background, how does the GOP “win” from here? And do you think my analogy is off-base (speaking of the Mets)?

I replied to your first paragraph before I'd read the rest of the post! Which now feels like a strong hit for a double, to keep a baseball analogy going. Good arguments there. But not quite a homer, and the "America's fucked" feeling remains because in recent years the country has shown so many reasons to feel pessimistic that go deeper than the GOP's chances of winning in 2024 - as posters above have argued, albeit some more persuasively than others. Look, I was always a bit of a romantic idealist and follower of lost causes (think football team) so I acknowledge the faith & love you still have for the land of your birth; me, I think I'd now trade it in for the Lake District except anytime I mention it the missus says don't forget to write.

How does the GOP win in 2024? By ditching Trump for De Santis for a start. Then again you can also wonder how can the Dems win when only 32% of voters (today) want Biden re-elected and only about 44% of Dem voters want him to run again.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

There’s a fair amount of incorrect hyperbole in this and frankly I’m a little surprised. Done nothing? Dozens have been arrested for J6; Trumps legal woes re the insurrection are just beginning. How is the judicial system a mystery? Whether elected or appointed there is always a political aspect to the judicial branch everywhere and anywhere. Your comments on the “race issue” are flat-out ignorant. The constitution has been amended 27 times on major issues and could certainly use more but the US has a process for that.

Meantime, there’s a line miles long of folks who want to study or work here, the nation is still growing, it leads every nation in the world in GDP by at least 50%, has ample land and natural resources to support itself and has a system of governance that still beats authoritarianism hollow despite all its problems and contradictions.

Maybe you’re right and we’re fucked — but not for the reasons you suggest.

Add in continued subversion and bullying of officials in an effort to illegally change the result of the general election, the bullying and sacking of two heads of the FBI who refused to be intimidated, the threats to foreign leaders for personal political gain, failure to hold the President accountable for any of this, thereby emboldening bigoted loons and enablers like MTG. The undermining of journalism, the labelling of facts and investigative work 'fake news'. Promotion of conspiracy theories, public humiliation and undermining of experts and science for the purpose of promoting agendas. I could go on for hours.
US is fucked

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Add in continued subversion and bullying of officials in an effort to illegally change the result of the general election, the bullying and sacking of two heads of the FBI who refused to be intimidated, the threats to foreign leaders for personal political gain, failure to hold the President accountable for any of this, thereby emboldening bigoted loons and enablers like MTG. The undermining of journalism, the labelling of facts and investigative work 'fake news'. Promotion of conspiracy theories, public humiliation and undermining of experts and science for the purpose of promoting agendas. I could go on for hours.
US is fucked

Then why isn't Trump President?

I was around for Watergate. Looked awfully dark then. And the GFC -- when the economy was truly on the brink.

But whatever -- were I you, I'd short every stock in America. You'll be rich if you're right.