US Politics Thread

[Dax777]

North Carolina Republicans took a beating at the State level, but as they wrap up their legislative tenure, they are desperately trying to change the rules to make it easier for them to screw around with future elections.

Also, just prior to the election, they changed voter rules to make it harder for some people to vote, meaning those people had to submit provisional ballots. They are now looking to have those 60,000 provisional ballots thrown out in a recount where one of their candidates lost by just 700 votes.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article295851219.html

Ah yes, let's report the Republicans in N. Carolina. But let's stay hush about the Democrats in Pennsylvania.


Whatever fits our preconceived opinions.

 

[threespires]

This would suggest the department of education is a failure, no?

Possibly, though whether at State or Federal level I wouldn't have enough knowledge to comment. However the research suggests that educational outcomes are more a function of broader socioeconomics and levels of inequality rather than educational policies per se. That's not to say educational policies can't be effective, especially if focused early in a child's life and combined with other interventions to support parents, but in and of itself education policy doesn't drive outcomes. I think the US has the worst gini coefficient of any OECD country, (though we've been doing our best to catch up) so it's probably not a coincidence that a pretty inequitable society has educational challenges. I don't say that to have a pop at the US because we're broadly in the same boat.

 

[Dax777]

Possibly, though whether at State or Federal level I wouldn't have enough knowledge to comment. However the research suggests that educational outcomes are more a function of broader socioeconomics and levels of inequality rather than educational policies per se. That's not to say educational policies can't be effective, especially if focused early in a child's life and combined with other interventions to support parents, but in and of itself education policy doesn't drive outcomes. I think the US has the worst gini coefficient of any OECD country, (though we've been doing our best to catch up) so it's probably not a coincidence that a pretty inequitable society has educational challenges. I don't say that to have a pop at the US because we're broadly in the same boat.

Agree with everything here. Albeit, I sense we'd have different views on how to solve some of the problems.

But as to diagnosing the problem and pointing out where we've failed. You couldn't be more right.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Ah yes, let's report the Republicans in N. Carolina. But let's stay hush about the Democrats in Pennsylvania.


Whatever fits our preconceived opinions.

I’ll repeat, none of you are selling this bestest ever democracy to me.
Every accusation is countered with ‘what about your man on the other side’.

The established norm seems to be, they’re all at it, so why single out anyone let alone Trump?’

The lot of you should really have a long hard look at your system of power/ justice/morality and how they are interlinked and abused.

My own view of what I’ve learned in here of the American system is that I simply don’t understand how so many of the electorate can be so influenced by a media that is bought and biased one way or another and how anyone educated or not can not see where this seems to be heading.

By that I mean, I barely regarded America as an uncorrupt democracy as things were, with how the judiciary seems to be so politically appointed and influenced and how local/state/federal government is not only intertwined but with gerrymandering at the local level it seems so capable of corrupting and stymieing any progress. Where is the protection of minorities etc.

But I actually fear for how worse things could get and really do believe there could be a risk of future change being made less possible (let’s leave it at that for now).

I also fear what Trump’s next actions may be regarding Ukraine and the Middle East and his foreign policy could have severe consequences in Europe.

There is already fears of TikTok interference in Romanian elections from Russia and I don’t think this is coincidental.

 

[Dax777]

I’ll repeat, none of you are selling this bestest ever democracy to me.
Every accusation is countered with ‘what about your man on the other side’.

I'm sure the problem that afflict our democracy probably afflicts yours too.

The established norm seems to be, they’re all at it, so why single out anyone let alone Trump?’

The lot of you should really have a long hard look at your system of power/ justice/morality and how they are interlinked and abused.

The difference I see is that maybe you guys have not YET become overtly political in every day life. But you are clearly marching that in that direction. This is a culture issue as much as it is a political one

The issue with Americans is not corruption in its politics. Rather, it's corrupted view of politics by its population. People becoming overtly political in their everyday thinking and seeing politics as a zero sum game.

The type of people who will disparage ostracize and character assassinate you for voting differently tand feel good or justified in doing so. That's the greater problem.

It doesn't matter what flimsy excuse is giving. Whether you are though of as immoral, evil, naive, stupid, corrupted, bigoted etc. You can pick your poison of choice. Too many are too comfortable demonizing their fellow citizens on the basis of making a different choice

And that problem my friend is not limited to America. It is gaining ground all over the West. And your Country is unfortunately not immune to it.

My own view of what I’ve learned in here of the American system is that I simply don’t understand how so many of the electorate can be so influenced by a media that is bought and biased one way or another and how anyone educated or not can not see where this seems to be heading.

On this we can both agree. So long as Citizens continue to demonize each other, we are heading towards a very dangerous place.

Sadly, I really don't see many doing much to stop it. We are all fanning the flames.

Having lived in a Banana Republic, one understand how this tends to play out.

By that I mean, I barely regarded America as an uncorrupt democracy as things were, with how the judiciary seems to be so politically appointed and influenced and how local/state/federal government is not only intertwined but with gerrymandering at the local level it seems so capable of corrupting and stymieing any progress. Where is the protection of minorities etc.

Democracy isn't perfect anywhere. Not even in your Country. And it's often harder in a larger more diverse Country. But so far, it's a better system than any other we have. So we should cherish it.

But I actually fear for how worse things could get and really do believe there could be a risk of future change being made less possible (let’s leave it at that for now).

I also fear what Trump’s next actions may be regarding Ukraine and the Middle East and his foreign policy could have severe consequences in Europe.

In my opinion , we should fear more Biden's current actions regarding Ukraine and the Middle East. As this might have consequences far more detrimental than any imagined beliefs of what Trump might do.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I'm sure the problem that afflict our democracy probably afflicts yours too.

The difference I see is that maybe you guys have not YET become overtly political in every day life. But you are clearly marching that in that direction. This is a culture issue as much as it is a political one

The issue with Americans is not corruption in its politics. Rather, it's corrupted view of politics by its population. People becoming overtly political in their everyday thinking and seeing politics as a zero sum game.

The type of people who will disparage ostracize and character assassinate you for voting differently tand feel good or justified in doing so. That's the greater problem.

It doesn't matter what flimsy excuse is giving. Whether you are though of as immoral, evil, naive, stupid, corrupted, bigoted etc. You can pick your poison of choice. Too many are too comfortable demonizing their fellow citizens on the basis of making a different choice

And that problem my friend is not limited to America. It is gaining ground all over the West. And your Country is unfortunately not immune to it.


On this we can both agree. So long as Citizens continue to demonize each other, we are heading towards a very dangerous place.

Sadly, I really don't see many doing much to stop it. We are all fanning the flames.

Having lived in a Banana Republic, one understand how this tends to play out.


Democracy isn't perfect anywhere. Not even in your Country. And it's often harder in a larger more diverse Country. But so far, it's a better system than any other we have. So we should cherish it.

In my opinion , we should fear more Biden's current actions regarding Ukraine and the Middle East. As this might have consequences far more detrimental than any imagined beliefs of what Trump might do.

Not unexpected Dax but I’ll paraphrase, which I know we both don’t like;
Yeah it’s not great but it’s the same in your country, or perhaps, all over if you like.

Not good enough.
I’m well aware of our own failings and I don’t regard them the same as I see in the America system.

I’ll leave it at that.
I know I’m wasting my time but the odd rant lets of steam. Solves nothing, but perhaps relieves pressure.

Let’s just politely say, you don’t convince me.

 

[Dax777]

Not unexpected Dax but I’ll paraphrase, which I know we both don’t like;
Yeah it’s not great but it’s the same in your country, or perhaps, all over if you like.

Not good enough.
I’m well aware of our own failings and I don’t regard them the same as I see in the America system.

I’ll leave it at that.
I know I’m wasting my time but the odd rant lets of steam. Solves nothing, but perhaps relieves pressure.

Let’s just politely say, you don’t convince me.

In fairness, I was under no illusion that I could convince you. Our political leanings have made us hard pressed to find common ground.

But I take some solace in the opportunity to let off steam and release some pressure. Perhaps, that's the first step in the right direction for all of us. Or perhaps it just a mirage.

At this point, I'm grabbing on to any silver lining. At least we are still talking. Many of my fellow countrymen would rather ostracize. I'm almost certain that's not a better option.

As when we stop talking, war is the next option.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Agree with everything here. Albeit, I sense we'd have different views on how to solve some of the problems.

But as to diagnosing the problem and pointing out where we've failed. You couldn't be more right.

I saw an interesting stat today about the US. The number of teachers has risen roughly in line with the number of students since 2000 (8%). The number of headteachers and headteachers' assistants has gone up by 34% in the same period. But the number of administrative staff has gone up by an insane 88%.

Now I don't know the starting points of those figures, but assuming they weren't massively understaffed in management and admin in 2000, it seems ridiculous that their numbers needed to increase by that amount at a time when teachers are complaining of being underpaid and overworked. In fact, I wonder to what extent the 'overwork' consists of additional work caused by the requirements of this huge layer of admin. Unless of course this extra admin is armed guards in all the schools to deal with all of the shootings, in which case, fair enough.

 

[Dax777]

I saw an interesting stat today about the US. The number of teachers has risen roughly in line with the number of students since 2000 (8%). The number of headteachers and headteachers' assistants has gone up by 34% in the same period. But the number of administrative staff has gone up by an insane 88%.

Now I don't know the starting points of those figures, but assuming they weren't massively understaffed in management and admin in 2000, it seems ridiculous that their numbers needed to increase by that amount at a time when teachers are complaining of being underpaid and overworked. In fact, I wonder to what extent the 'overwork' consists of additional work caused by the requirements of this huge layer of admin. Unless of course this extra admin is armed guards in all the schools to deal with all of the shootings, in which case, fair enough.

That's one of the major problems in education. It is unfortunately not geared towards the education of the children, but rather to the advantage of an ever-growing class of managerial types, who's jobs don't seem to have any positive effect on improvement of students outcomes.

And to some extent, a negative effect on those outcomes. This is why some of us don't think our schools are necessarily underfunded, but rather well funded but the funds are mis- appropriated and never to the needed areas that foster improvement in the children.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Possibly, though whether at State or Federal level I wouldn't have enough knowledge to comment. However the research suggests that educational outcomes are more a function of broader socioeconomics and levels of inequality rather than educational policies per se. That's not to say educational policies can't be effective, especially if focused early in a child's life and combined with other interventions to support parents, but in and of itself education policy doesn't drive outcomes. I think the US has the worst gini coefficient of any OECD country, (though we've been doing our best to catch up) so it's probably not a coincidence that a pretty inequitable society has educational challenges. I don't say that to have a pop at the US because we're broadly in the same boat.

State education boards set the curriculum so it's disingenuous to blame the Department for Education as a whole for falling standards.

Republicans seem to like stupid people for some reason.