US Politics Thread

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It baffles me coming from foreigners in particular. If you're American ok, maybe you really think he's going to improve the economy or crime rates, etc. Wouldn't hold your breath but whatever, it's a crazy world.

If you're living in Europe, what possible angle can you have for supporting him? He despises Europeans and thinks you're a bunch of freeloaders and a target for coercion, as do many of the people he's going to empower. Most American voters couldn't care less about policy towards Germany or the UK. You're not going to benefit from his time in power, believe me.
 
WT86 said:
It baffles me coming from foreigners in particular. If you're American ok, maybe you really think he's going to improve the economy or crime rates, etc. Wouldn't hold your breath but whatever, it's a crazy world.

If you're living in Europe, what possible angle can you have for supporting him? He despises Europeans and thinks you're a bunch of freeloaders and a target for coercion, as do many of the people he's going to empower. Most American voters couldn't care less about policy towards Germany or the UK. You're not going to benefit from his time in power, believe me.
Click to expand...
RW social media.

Lots of US commentators and AI driven sights portraying trump as the all conquering hero.

Putin does the same but he uses comedy to spread his bullshit. Such as one sketch which was AI showing Russian troops to be toughest of the tough then cuts to a camp man in a US uniform asking to be discharged because his officer "hurt her feelings by misgendering them."
 
Damocles said:
Because they never actually believed this and it was always an election scare tactic.
If they REALLY believed that Trump was the next Hitler and was going to end American democracy, they'd be talking about armed resistances. Instead they'll wait 4 years for a populist and vaguely ineffective President to burn himself out and then carry on as usual like they did in 2016.
The messaging of the left in the US (and thus has been imported everywhere else) since about 1995 is that everybody on the right is a racist either openly or secretly. As messaging becomes more sophisticated and the cultural shock of that wears off, it gets more extreme and extreme to provoke the same response in people. So now people aren't racist but secretly Nazis and fascists too. None of it is actually real and they know it.
The right does the same thing with a variety of issues which can be vaguely amalgamated into a broad categories of "communist barbarians". Every policy the left comes up with, every action, is painted as dogwhistles (and similarly as messaging became more extreme, outright accusations of) barbarism or communism.
Nobody on the right GENUINELY believes that Kamala Harris is a Communist or that elite pedophiles control Washington, it just helps them to pretend because it whips their base up. Same thing.
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Spot on. The only people either republican or democrat presidents care about are the billionaires whose support is necessary to get the keys to the Whitehouse. All the Nazi / communist narrative from either side is just there to create an illusion of choice, or just interest.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Yep... i see Damocles never come back on this point.
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It's not like I don't come back on a point because I'm stumped, I just feel some things as so obvious that I can't be arsed and suspect I'm talking to someone with their head in the sand and that's a pointless endevour.

Here's the top result on Google

apnews.com

Harris says Trump 'is a fascist' after John Kelly says the former president wanted generals like Hitler's

Harris' comment comes after Trump's his longest-serving chief of staff said Trump praised Adolf Hitler while in office.
apnews.com apnews.com

www.cbsnews.com

DNC projects message tying Trump to Hitler on Madison Square Garden during rally

Sunday marks the first time the DNC is projecting counterprogramming onto a building while Trump will be inside it, but it's far from the first time Democrats have deployed the technique.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

I'm sure there's 5000 more I could find if I felt the need to "prove" this incredibly well evidenced point that people purposely misunderstand for partisan reasons.
 
Damocles said:
It's not like I don't come back on a point because I'm stumped, I just feel some things as so obvious that I can't be arsed and suspect I'm talking to someone with their head in the sand and that's a pointless endevour.

Here's the top result on Google

apnews.com

Harris says Trump 'is a fascist' after John Kelly says the former president wanted generals like Hitler's

Harris' comment comes after Trump's his longest-serving chief of staff said Trump praised Adolf Hitler while in office.
apnews.com apnews.com

www.cbsnews.com

DNC projects message tying Trump to Hitler on Madison Square Garden during rally

Sunday marks the first time the DNC is projecting counterprogramming onto a building while Trump will be inside it, but it's far from the first time Democrats have deployed the technique.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

I'm sure there's 5000 more I could find if I felt the need to "prove" this incredibly well evidenced point that people purposely misunderstand for partisan reasons.
Click to expand...

That’s not the point I was making.
I said most of the facist rhetoric and danger warnings were coming from Trumps inner circle from his last time in office including his chief of staff - none of whom would be classed as left and are all staunch right wingers.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
That’s not the point I was making.
I said most of the facist rhetoric and danger warnings were coming from Trumps inner circle from his last time in office including his chief of staff - none of whom would be classed as left and are all staunch right wingers.
Click to expand...

Yes and I said "most" of this rhetoric was not coming from them and was part of a concerted campaign strategy that the DNC spent millions on, in viral, liminal and superliminal forms. This was a cornerstone of their strategy and pretending its not for reasons I can't fathom isn't going to be a debate that's interesting to me
 
WT86 said:
It baffles me coming from foreigners in particular. If you're American ok, maybe you really think he's going to improve the economy or crime rates, etc. Wouldn't hold your breath but whatever, it's a crazy world.

If you're living in Europe, what possible angle can you have for supporting him? He despises Europeans and thinks you're a bunch of freeloaders and a target for coercion, as do many of the people he's going to empower. Most American voters couldn't care less about policy towards Germany or the UK. You're not going to benefit from his time in power, believe me.
Click to expand...

Why did people prefer Obama to their own politicians?

American politics is significantly more glamorous and has better messaging than ours. Their leaders are more charismatic, their issues seem more important and the partisan nature of it seems more extreme which naturally has people swinging to one side or the other.

Europeans like Trump for similar reasons that Americans like Trump but with the added bonus that they believe that he'' "get things done" while their own national politics is ineffective or slow. It's the opposite in reality, you want politics to be slow and take a while for things to change on a calm baby steps basis, but people's attention spans are now that of pond life so they don't want to wait or they don't understand the idea that change can happen incrementally. That's why everybody likes a good election, they get to pretend that somebody else is going to come into power on the Tuesday and by Wednesday all of their pet political problems are going to be getting dealt with. Doesn't work like that. In fact in today's mess of global regulations and national legislative frameworks, I'd argue that a 4 year term is probably too short for anyone to really make any major changes.
 
Damocles said:
Why did people prefer Obama to their own politicians?

American politics is significantly more glamorous and has better messaging than ours. Their leaders are more charismatic, their issues seem more important and the partisan nature of it seems more extreme which naturally has people swinging to one side or the other.

Europeans like Trump for similar reasons that Americans like Trump but with the added bonus that they believe that he'' "get things done" while their own national politics is ineffective or slow. It's the opposite in reality, you want politics to be slow and take a while for things to change on a calm baby steps basis, but people's attention spans are now that of pond life so they don't want to wait or they don't understand the idea that change can happen incrementally. That's why everybody likes a good election, they get to pretend that somebody else is going to come into power on the Tuesday and by Wednesday all of their pet political problems are going to be getting dealt with. Doesn't work like that. In fact in today's mess of global regulations and national legislative frameworks, I'd argue that a 4 year term is probably too short for anyone to really make any major changes.
Click to expand...

I understand people taking an interest and that's fine, I keep an eye on European politics for similar reasons. I also understand why people in this country support him, even if I think they're naive. He's promising to solve their problems and attack their perceived enemies, as you say.

What I don't understand is the average people in foreign countries who defend Trump. He's openly xenophobic and he hasn't promised our usual allies anything except tariffs and bullying.
 
Damocles said:
Why did people prefer Obama to their own politicians?

American politics is significantly more glamorous and has better messaging than ours. Their leaders are more charismatic, their issues seem more important and the partisan nature of it seems more extreme which naturally has people swinging to one side or the other.

Europeans like Trump for similar reasons that Americans like Trump but with the added bonus that they believe that he'' "get things done" while their own national politics is ineffective or slow. It's the opposite in reality, you want politics to be slow and take a while for things to change on a calm baby steps basis, but people's attention spans are now that of pond life so they don't want to wait or they don't understand the idea that change can happen incrementally. That's why everybody likes a good election, they get to pretend that somebody else is going to come into power on the Tuesday and by Wednesday all of their pet political problems are going to be getting dealt with. Doesn't work like that. In fact in today's mess of global regulations and national legislative frameworks, I'd argue that a 4 year term is probably too short for anyone to really make any major changes.
Click to expand...
What European s like Trump, as a matter of interest?
 
WT86 said:
It baffles me coming from foreigners in particular. If you're American ok, maybe you really think he's going to improve the economy or crime rates, etc. Wouldn't hold your breath but whatever, it's a crazy world.

If you're living in Europe, what possible angle can you have for supporting him? He despises Europeans and thinks you're a bunch of freeloaders and a target for coercion, as do many of the people he's going to empower. Most American voters couldn't care less about policy towards Germany or the UK. You're not going to benefit from his time in power, believe me.
Click to expand...
Trump is a populist and populists offer seemingly simple solutions to desperately complex problems.

Build a wall. Take over another country. Reduce immigration.

Farage, Le Pen, Bolsonaro etc all offer the same - simple slogans, quick wins and the identification of “baddies”.

Their language is universal and crosses boundaries.
 
WT86 said:
I understand people taking an interest and that's fine, I keep an eye on European politics for similar reasons. I also understand why people in this country support him, even if I think they're naive. He's promising to solve their problems and attack their perceived enemies, as you say.

What I don't understand is the average people in foreign countries who defend Trump. He's openly xenophobic and he hasn't promised our usual allies anything except tariffs and bullying.
Click to expand...

We are tied to US politics whether we like it or not. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the defence programs we've signed up to recently.

KBR Awarded $100m Operational Support Contract for UK Ministry of Defence

www.kbr.com www.kbr.com
www.anduril.com

Anduril Industries Awarded £17 million Ministry of Defence Force Protection Technology Contract

Anduril to to explore future capabilities for fixed installation Force Protection and Counter Intrusion, and Counter-Unmanned Aerial Systems for the Royal Air Force and Strategic Command on Permanent Joint Operating Bases (PJOBs).
www.anduril.com www.anduril.com

Lockheed Martin Awarded Contract to Provide UK Armed Forces with Advanced Uncrewed Aerial Systems and Services

Havant, UK, 16 December – The UK Ministry of Defence has awarded Lockheed Martin a 10-year contract to provide the British Army with uncrewed Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR)...
lockheedmartinuk.mediaroom.com lockheedmartinuk.mediaroom.com

UK Ministry of Defence Awards Lockheed Martin Contract to Develop a Flexible Satellite Mission Control System

London, February 14, 2024 – The U.K. Ministry of Defence (MOD) has awarded Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) a research and development contract to provide a secure, open source, ground-segment...
lockheedmartinuk.mediaroom.com lockheedmartinuk.mediaroom.com
 
DelToro said:
Trump is a populist and populists offer seemingly simple solutions to desperately complex problems.

Build a wall. Take over another country. Reduce immigration.

Farage, Le Pen, Bolsonaro etc all offer the same - simple slogans, quick wins and the identification of “baddies”.

Their language is universal and crosses boundaries.
Click to expand...
You're right, people like Farage and Le Pen have a few admirers in the right wing over here. That said I wonder if that would last if they were openly anti-American, threatening to impose tariffs on the US and otherwise denigrating our relationship.
 
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