VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

Good grief . . .

Will there still be any long delays for VAR checks?

Longer delays should be rarer, because SAOT means the VAR won't have to go through the manual process of mapping the players.

However, there will be occasions when there are subjective elements to a decision. Is a player interfering with play? Has there been a "deliberate play" of the ball by the defender? Is an attacker in the line of vision of the goalkeeper? Those decisions, and others with multiple offside elements, will take longer.

^^So not only will there be no improvements to these problems, but according to this, SAOT will make all the stuff that's been a problem take even longer.

There will also be situations where players block each other in the system's cameras, or there may be multiple checks in one phase -- like in the Bournemouth-Wolves FA Cup tie.

For instance, there was an offside check in Everton vs. Manchester United earlier this season which took over three minutes, and SAOT would not have improved that as it wasn't purely related to player positions.

In the Champions League too, there can still be lengthy delays.

And this is supposed to be reassuring?


Will SAOT be used for all offside decisions?

No, so it's still possible for a corner to result from a missed offside.

The VAR will only activate SAOT in one of the match-changing moments covered by VAR -- goals, penalties and red cards.

^^What are we even doing?


What about the delayed offside flag?

While it's true SAOT can work out player positions quickly, as its only for use on VAR reviews we haven't seen the end of the delayed offside flag.

Play will still continue in an attacking situation until the end of the phase, when the assistant will raise their flag.

^^Yeah, we know. Still the same problem. But don't call this progress. Call it regress, because the whole delayed flag raising is blatantly unacceptable!!


Is SAOT in any other leagues?

Serie A was the first European domestic league to switch to SAOT, introducing it in January 2023 after a high-profile VAR error early in that campaign had seen a stoppage-time winning goal for Juventus incorrectly disallowed.


Time taken definitely erodes confidence. So, if SAOT can make everything noticeably quicker we might at least lose one of VAR's areas of criticism.

^^Spending a ridiculous amount of focus on trying to improve only one of the many areas of VAR criticism.


How does SAOT work?

Incredibly, the Premier League's SAOT uses a FIFA-validated iPhone-based system known internally at Genius Sports as "Dragon," rather than lower frame rate broadcast cameras. There are 30 iPhones (the number may vary slightly by stadium design), model 14 or newer, installed under the roof of the 20 Premier League grounds.

Literally iPhones. A system with one of his key components off limits to the biggest leagues in the world by ball sensor technology "branding" and out of the reach from a cost perspective, yet relies on iPhones scattered under the "roof" of stadiums for imaging. The absurdity of it all.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
In the Arsenal game... None of this diving for corners shit would happen without VAR, it is ruining the game. It has done so.
Click to expand...

No , what would have ruined the game is cheating bastard Mbappe being awarded a penalty for a ridiculous dive - thanks to VAR this was overturned. Could have completely changed the complexity of the match.

Scrap VAR and those sort of farcical dives get rewarded with a penalty.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
No , what would have ruined the game is cheating bastard Mbappe being awarded a penalty for a ridiculous dive - thanks to VAR this was overturned. Could have completely changed the complexity of the match.

Scrap VAR and those sort of farcical dives get rewarded with a penalty.
Click to expand...
Yeah we all loved VAR firstly the checking for offside, then checking for a foul, then microscopic analysis of something they had to, in the end, leave to the ref..... 5 minutes of waiting and NOT knowing what answer (Lets be honest) that they would come up with.

And all of that shite was caused by players constantly diving at corners because it is a VAR thing.

It has changed the game for the overall worse. It is beyond correcting some errors (And even then sometimes making worse mistakes than refs)
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Yeah we all loved VAR firstly the checking for offside, then checking for a foul, then microscopic analysis of something they had to, in the end, leave to the ref..... 5 minutes of waiting and NOT knowing what answer (Lets be honest) that they would come up with.

And all of that shite was caused by players constantly diving at corners because it is a VAR thing.

It has changed the game for the overall worse. It is beyond correcting some errors (And even then sometimes making worse mistakes than refs)
Click to expand...

So would you prefer to scrap VAR and the ref awarding penalties all the time every time Mbappe and co dive in the box ?

For all its faults, frustrating delays - when they over turn a dive it’s a thing of beauty - I cheered that decision.
 
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BlueHammer85 said:
No , what would have ruined the game is cheating bastard Mbappe being awarded a penalty for a ridiculous dive - thanks to VAR this was overturned. Could have completely changed the complexity of the match.

Scrap VAR and those sort of farcical dives get rewarded with a penalty.
Click to expand...
Ha ha ha ha. 5 minutes to overturn. Ha ha ha ha. Progress!!!
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So would you prefer to scrap VAR and the ref awarding penalties all the time every time Mbappe and co dive in the box ?

For all its faults, frustrating delays - when they over turn a dive it’s a thing of beauty - I cheered that decision.
Click to expand...
You don’t go the game. You’re happier staying at home and enjoying VAR. Leave the football to those who go will you. We know what the fans want.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So would you prefer to scrap VAR and the ref awarding penalties all the time every time Mbappe and co dive in the box ?

For all its faults, frustrating delays - when they over turn a dive it’s a thing of beauty - I cheered that decision.
Click to expand...
You cheered? Chacun à son goût
BlueHammer85 said:
So would you prefer to scrap VAR and the ref awarding penalties all the time every time Mbappe and co dive in the box ?

For all its faults, frustrating delays - when they over turn a dive it’s a thing of beauty - I cheered that decision.
Click to expand...
 
johnnytapia said:
Ha ha ha ha. 5 minutes to overturn. Ha ha ha ha. Progress!!!
Click to expand...
He's firmly nailed his colours to the VAR mast years ago. There's no turning back for him.

I just await the day when Wet Spam are denied a crucial goal in a cup final or important game by the VAR team.

That will be poetry in motion!!
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So would you prefer to scrap VAR and the ref awarding penalties all the time every time Mbappe and co dive in the box ?

For all its faults, frustrating delays - when they over turn a dive it’s a thing of beauty - I cheered that decision.
Click to expand...

Quite right. Mbappe must be stupid to dive in the box if there is no contact.

We all know he should have initiated an inevitable contact and then dive. That would still have been a penalty even with VAR.

VAR hasn't stopped diving, it's just made the players smarter at conning the referee. That's all.

And let's not forget diving could have been stamped out with retrospective punishment without the need for in-match VAR.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Quite right. Mbappe must be stupid to dive in the box if there is no contact.

We all know he should have initiated an inevitable contact and then dive. That would still have been a penalty even with VAR.

VAR hasn't stopped diving, it's just made the players smarter at conning the referee. That's all.

And let's not forget diving could have been stamped out with retrospective punishment without the need for in-match VAR.
Click to expand...

Did you see it ? Rice had his arms around him but nowhere near enough Mbappe to dive to the ground.
Before VAR it’s a penalty to Madrid, no questions asked and everyone seemingly would be alll fine about it.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
No , what would have ruined the game is cheating bastard Mbappe being awarded a penalty for a ridiculous dive - thanks to VAR this was overturned. Could have completely changed the complexity of the match.

Scrap VAR and those sort of farcical dives get rewarded with a penalty.
Click to expand...
It's histrionics to call that a "ridiculous / farcical dive". In no way was that a dive. First of all, Rice has his arms wrapped around him, second, Mbappe stepped on Rice's foot making him lose balance and fall.

The only thing anyone can agree on about this situation was that it was very subjective and very difficult for VAR to make a decision, which is why it took so long, which is way VAR is such a disaster. This was essentially a 50/50 situation that fans would be split on no matter whether it was called a penalty or not.

Had it been given a penalty, on the pitch or via a VAR review, fans would be fuming that MBappe was getting preferential treatment, or that he "dived", but if they don't give a penalty then fans would be fuming that Rice had his hands on him, stopped him from getting to the ball, caused him to fall, etc.

This situation just goes to show that VAR struggles to make subjective decisions that could be interpreted one way or the other, and it's aggravating to have such a delay and for them to decide on something that the public will never have a consensus on regardless of what decision is made.

But you, Hammer, arguing that it was a "farcical dive" when that's not what happened at all, probably since you dislike Mbappe or for whatever reason, is even more aggravating because that's objectively not what happened!

Did you miss the part where he stepped on Rice's foot while Rice was holding him up? That to you is a "dive"? If you step on someones foot you generally fall because you are unable to plant your foot on solid ground.

Now I'm not arguing that it was a clear penalty or that it wasn't. My view is that, like most of VAR reviews, it was very borderline that could be interpreted either way. It was likely to be reviewed by VAR regardless of whether or not it was ruled a penalty on the pitch. Lets say a penalty wasn't given on the pitch. Then VAR reviews it and probably comes to the same conclusion because they're unsure. Or they don't review it and fans are fuming that VAR didn't review it.

You see, Hammer, no matter what they do, it's destined to be a controversial situation, probably with or without VAR. But you are trying so hard to put VAR over, that you've accused Mbappe of diving and making it sound like it was a clear non-penalty, as if Rice wasn't all over him, holding him back from possibly getting to the ball, as if his foot wasn't stepped. As if he just dove all by himself.

No, that wasn't a dive, Hammer. The devil is in the details. In a situation like this, there's gonna be controversy no matter what decision was made, on the pitch, with or without VAR. It's one of those, you see.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Did you see it ? Rice had his arms around him but nowhere near enough Mbappe to dive to the ground.
Before VAR it’s a penalty to Madrid, no questions asked and everyone seemingly would be alll fine about it.
Click to expand...
He stepped on his foot, causing him to fall!! Did you fail to notice that?
 
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