VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

Gordyola said:
Was at the match sat pretty much level and it was clearly offside the Lino choose not to flag I don't know why Yet with the City goal same place on pitch and also offside he couldn't wait to get his flag up So, bullocks trying to claim that VAR kept it at 2:0 he would have flagged the LFC goal in the good old days
Click to expand...

Sorry, that is not clearly offside, that is very tight.
The lino kept his flag down because he thought it was onside - hence he never raised it when the goal went in.
VAR kept it at 2-0, if there really is corruption wouldn't they scrap VAR and just let the lino flag offside ? be way easier.

www.skysports.com

Man City vs Liverpool: Curtis Jones goal ruled out for offside

Curtis Jones goal is ruled out by VAR to deny Liverpool their third in their Premier League clash with Man City.
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
 
BlueHammer85 said:
No, that's rubbish, the lino didn't think it was offside so didn't flag. pre VAR that would have been given as a goal.

It was proved the other weekend when VAR was not in use and Maguire scored a last min offside goal. It happned week in without prior VAR.
Click to expand...
That was actually my point. To me, the linesman’s motion (pointing the flag down) was indicating that he thought the Liverpool player was onside. He never raised his flag after the ball went in the net and in fact only did so after the VAR decision. The linesman got it wrong.
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
It's corrupt. On top of all the fundamental problems having to do with doing offsides this way, we have a new level of inconsistency. And that inconsistency is much more glaring than before. Because before VAR you really had to pay attention, rely on your memory not to forget something that happened in the match, which created more nuanced and interesting discussions. Now with VAR everyone is insanely focused almost entirely on what VAR hand picks to review or doesn't review, or the decision they make there that all that noise is in place of all the other things that happened throughout the match that no one has the energy to debate since VAR is constantly demanding everyone's attention due to its nature and how it has been applied.
Click to expand...

Isn't it alot easier to be corrupt without VAR ? the lino can just not flag when its offside, no questions asked. 3-0 liverpool.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sorry, that is not clearly offside, that is very tight.
The lino kept his flag down because he thought it was onside - hence he never raised it when the goal went in.
VAR kept it at 2-0, if there really is corruption wouldn't they scrap VAR and just let the lino flag offside ? be way easier.

www.skysports.com

Man City vs Liverpool: Curtis Jones goal ruled out for offside

Curtis Jones goal is ruled out by VAR to deny Liverpool their third in their Premier League clash with Man City.
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
Click to expand...
The game is much better without VAR. The BBC poll said around 65% were in favour of scrapping it. I choose not to go anymore primarily because of VAR and also because of the ESL thing at the time.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Sorry, that is not clearly offside, that is very tight.
The lino kept his flag down because he thought it was onside - hence he never raised it when the goal went in.
VAR kept it at 2-0, if there really is corruption wouldn't they scrap VAR and just let the lino flag offside ? be way easier.

www.skysports.com

Man City vs Liverpool: Curtis Jones goal ruled out for offside

Curtis Jones goal is ruled out by VAR to deny Liverpool their third in their Premier League clash with Man City.
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
Click to expand...
The corruption occurs when the VARs get together and decide to overrule the referee, or decide to get involved here instead of there, or there instead of here. They have this power to change the trajectory of the match at a whim and then proceed to make decisions in inconsistent or suspicious ways that causes fans to become way more conspiratorial than before, and rightfully so. The feeling of being screwed due to a scheming set of VARs picking and choose what to look at, when to alert the referee is highly corrupt, without fans having any flipping clue what they are looking at or how they decide to subjectively interpret whatever they choose to look at, in whatever way they decide to at any given time.
 
half & half derby scarf said:
The game is much better without VAR. The BBC poll said around 65% were in favour of scrapping it. I choose not to go anymore primarily because of VAR and also because of the ESL thing at the time.
Click to expand...

That's a shame to be honest, I get alot of the criticism with VAR, when they get it wrong even with the help of tech it infuriates me than anyone and also get the argument when a goal is scored there's that awful VAR dread that it can be ruled out - I try and be balanced in my arguments in favour for VAR and instead of constant outrage i try and highlight where it's good for the game - Liverpool offside goal was quickly ruled out thanks to VAR - these sort of decisions are just expected and get little praise but for me it's mind blowing how many offside goals would have stood and did stand prior VAR.
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
The corruption occurs when the VARs get together and decide to overrule the referee, or decide to get involved here instead of there, or there instead of here. They have this power to change the trajectory of the match at a whim and then proceed to make decisions in inconsistent or suspicious ways that causes fans to become way more conspiratorial than before, and rightfully so. The feeling of being screwed due to a scheming set of VARs without any flipping clue what they are looking at or what they decide to subjectively interpret whatever they choose to look at, in whatever way they decide to at any given time.
Click to expand...

a lot of mental gymnastics going on I'm afraid. VAR corrects a lot of injustices like offside goals and non penalty's etc, it's not flawless, its not favoring any teams statistically and let's not forget, the ref is often the ones getting a second look on the screen - if he still gets the wrong verdict then why is it VAR fault?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Isn't it alot easier to be corrupt without VAR ? the lino can just not flag when its offside, no questions asked. 3-0 liverpool.
Click to expand...
No because corruption occurs typically when those in power have the means to scheme amongst themselves in real time to change the trajectory of a match in any way they see fit.

And remember, the has only one job to do, a very important job, the traditional lino acts on his own without any outside interference allowing him to clear his mind and focus on the action and make the best decision. The beauty of it is that the lino is solely responsible for his decisions or his mistakes, no one else's. There's no one to blame if he makes a mistake, there's no wondering who made the decision. He has every incentive in the world to be as accurate as possible. Being a lino is a very tough job, but the best lino is an independent and unimpeded lino free and motivated to make the best decisions he can. And if he misses something, it's understandable since it's understood that it was done in the heat of the moment rather than after painful meticulous hyper paranoid analysis by a group of people in a room looking at monitors. Under VAR there's a heightened sense of nervousness, everyone's on pins and needles, even the players and that's no way for football to be played. Football was meant to be handled on the pitch not through a monitor.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
a lot of mental gymnastics going on I'm afraid. VAR corrects a lot of injustices like offside goals and non penalty's etc, it's not flawless, its not favoring any teams statistically and let's not forget, the ref is often the ones getting a second look on the screen - if he still gets the wrong verdict then why is it VAR fault?
Click to expand...
The only mental gymnastics going on is by the people running VAR and involved in it, and those defending it. Just as you say all you wanna see is for bad decisions to be corrected, all I and many fans want to see is Normal football. This isn't a zero sum game, it's not as if you can't want officiating to be better whilst wanting football to be played normally. If the quality of officiating got worse over time (before VAR) then that was a problem that should have been dealt with, or could have been dealt with in better ways for the benefit of football and everyone involved. Right now, as it stands, however much you want VAR to succeed, you can't deny how problematic it is, on many levels, and I appreciate you saying that you understand the other side. You make some fair points Hammer and it's important that we understand and respect each other's perspectives.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
That's a shame to be honest, I get alot of the criticism with VAR, when they get it wrong even with the help of tech it infuriates me than anyone and also get the argument when a goal is scored there's that awful VAR dread that it can be ruled out - I try and be balanced in my arguments in favour for VAR and instead of constant outrage i try and highlight where it's good for the game - Liverpool offside goal was quickly ruled out thanks to VAR - these sort of decisions are just expected and get little praise but for me it's mind blowing how many offside goals would have stood and did stand prior VAR.
Click to expand...
And all I'm trying to do is bring the issues of VAR to your attention to get your take on them, issues that should be addressed. I'm also taking in your points into consideration and responding to them as best I can, in the context of what VAR actually is and the effect that it has on other aspects of the game that you may not be considering.

Just as you say it's mind blowing how many offside goals would have stood and did stand prior to VAR, it's mind blowing to me how many times play is allowed to fraudulently continue under VAR that would have been flagged as offsides pre-VAR, creating a completely different set of circumstances. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, that's not even taking into account the controversy from the decisions made following a review, or the fact that regardless of whether VAR eventually makes the correct or incorrect call following a lengthly review, you've already lost the moment as it would have happened had it been adjudicated on the pitch. Even a borderline wrong offsides call in the moment is far better than a lengthly VAR review that destroys the moment and creates a different set of circumstances. Obviously no one wants a howler, but the kind of reviews that are driving everyone up a wall are clearly not howlers, they are the vast majority of VAR reviews.

Thinking that you can let play continue on an offsides decision and then solve it after the fact by having VAR check as play is going on, and intervene if something happens, as if you can even get back what it would have been had the call been made correctly on the pitch (you can't). That's my biggest problem with it, you lose the continuity every time VAR gets involved, especially on offsides. Going to VAR to study a foul after a foul was given by the referee doesn't bother me as much because play was already stopped. Like that one in the Rangers match in the Scottish league, through VAR he (in my view) correctly downgraded a straight red given on the pitch to a yellow on that slide tackle following a VAR review. There are of course instances where VAR can genuinely correct a bad on field decision, but that is unfortunately only a very small % of VAR reviews. And there's plenty that they miss, and a lot of that has to do with them not being able to review every potentially bad decision or matches would take 3 hours. And even, like that Rangers one, it's still subjective. And it would have been far better had the ref just gave it a yellow card on the pitch. VAR has unfortunately caused referees to be more inaccurate in their decisions on the pitch because they know they have VAR to fall back on.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So was Rugby, Tennis and Cricket. we evolve. If Refs can have some tech help to correct the vast majority of injustices (which it does) then i will always be for that i'm afraid.
Click to expand...
Apples to Oranges. The way Hawk-Eye works in Tennis is completely different to VAR. That's like Goal-line technology only which everyone is for and isn't controversial in the slightest.

Rugby TMO works fine largely because Rugby is a stop-start sport. And because Rugby is a much more complicated sport than football with more moving parts more nuanced rules and more things for the ref to miss.

Football at its core is unlike any other sport due to its continuous nature and natural flow.
 
What I dont understand is how they change the rules all the time since var was introduced , eg the spurs CL home game to the rules now re offside and handball , numerous other examples too many to mention , I thought the ruling this season was var wont get involved with the refs onfield decision UNLESS theres been a clear and obvious error? to speed the game up lol , take the everton pen for example why has var got involved ? where is the clear and obvious error ? and then the refs been instructed to go to the monitor and var omit the clear angle showing deligt pulling youngs shirt ?? you have to question it and why its happened , its ruining the game also why have the fa still not implemented the semi auto offside tech in the prem ? which does speed up the game ffs , no wonder fans are pissed off and confused
 
Anyone see Dale Johnson's explanation of Young's non penalty? Have a read. It's bollocks, but it's interesting because he is quoting the official PGMOL line when they say the overturn wasn't a mistake. Of course he has to, otherwise he doesn't get their input any more.

Apparently, VAR couldn't get involved in the de Ligt shirt pulls because the decision was against Maguire. That's good to know ....... \0/

VAR did apparently show the de Ligt shirt pulls to the referee but from a not very convincing angle and, when he asked himself why they didn't show the more convincing behind the goal angle, says "Perhaps the referee could have been shown the goal-mouth camera angle, but remember the VAR has decided that there is no clear and obvious error related to De Ligt. The referee could also have requested further angles after seeing the high-behind". You think? No mistake, though, so that's OK. Procedural dogma rather than getting it right. It's so tiring.

He should be in the Olympics with mental gymnastics like that.
 
Blueknows said:
What I dont understand is how they change the rules all the time since var was introduced , eg the spurs CL home game to the rules now re offside and handball , numerous other examples too many to mention , I thought the ruling this season was var wont get involved with the refs onfield decision UNLESS theres been a clear and obvious error? to speed the game up lol , take the everton pen for example why has var got involved ? where is the clear and obvious error ? and then the refs been instructed to go to the monitor and var omit the clear angle showing deligt pulling youngs shirt ?? you have to question it and why its happened , its ruining the game also why have the fa still not implemented the semi auto offside tech in the prem ? which does speed up the game ffs , no wonder fans are pissed off and confused
Click to expand...

What I dont understand is how they change the rules all the time since var was introduced.

Tech will always look at ways to improve and evolve, that's always been a massive benefit for me.

I thought the ruling this season was var wont get involved with the refs onfield decision UNLESS theres been a clear and obvious error.

That has been the case this season for sure, it's been much better and let the game flowed - Yes a few examples where VAR has intervened like the Everton non penalty which is a bit subjective - personally felt he flew in the air so ridiculously it was never a pen - i know some can argue there was a shirt pull and that's enough.

fa still not implemented the semi auto offside tech in the prem

It's coming - i'd rather they didn't rush these things and slowly implement changes, just bring it in for cups for now etc.
One thing i criticize is that they rushed VAR too quickly into the game - they should have just implemented offsides for season 1, then red card decisions season 2 etc.

no wonder fans are pissed off and confused

With or without tech help for refs... that will never change.
 
Blueknows said:
What I dont understand is how they change the rules all the time since var was introduced , eg the spurs CL home game to the rules now re offside and handball , numerous other examples too many to mention , I thought the ruling this season was var wont get involved with the refs onfield decision UNLESS theres been a clear and obvious error? to speed the game up lol , take the everton pen for example why has var got involved ? where is the clear and obvious error ? and then the refs been instructed to go to the monitor and var omit the clear angle showing deligt pulling youngs shirt ?? you have to question it and why its happened , its ruining the game also why have the fa still not implemented the semi auto offside tech in the prem ? which does speed up the game ffs , no wonder fans are pissed off and confused
Click to expand...
Throw in different interpretations/rules in leagues in Germany,Italy,Spain and England with VAR,then another set with champions league,like rugby one set of rules for all leagues and European competitions,the whole thing is a shambles,then as you mentioned were is the semi automated tech they were introducing start of season..No what they have decided to do is bring it 2/3 of the season gone,total laughing stock ..
 
Gordyola said:
Was at the match sat pretty much level and it was clearly offside the Lino choose not to flag I don't know why Yet with the City goal same place on pitch and also offside he couldn't wait to get his flag up So, bullocks trying to claim that VAR kept it at 2:0 he would have flagged the LFC goal in the good old days
Click to expand...
But my point was/is this is the first time a still photo was used to show our offside on the screen. Was that an accident ?
For the dippers 3rd, then ruled out, nothing was shown so back to normal ?
 
Blue Mist said:
But my point was/is this is the first time a still photo was used to show our offside on the screen. Was that an accident ?
For the dippers 3rd, then ruled out, nothing was shown so back to normal ?
Click to expand...
Who knows the whole thing is a shit show
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top