Vat on Independent school fees?

[Brewster's millions]

Such facile words. I’ve never been in hospital since the day I was born. Should I still be contributing to the NHS?
You do make it easy.

A really poor example, facile even, given that the NHS is a social safety net and university attendance isn’t.

You can disregard and criticise my views on the matter as much as you want, but given the looming and in some cases imminent financial problems facing several universities, the status quo won’t be in place for much longer.

Just don’t be too disappointed when your Labour government starts asking the sort of questions you’d rather ignore.

 

[johnnytapia]

A really poor example, facile even, given that the NHS is a social safety net and university attendance isn’t.

You can disregard and criticise my views on the matter as much as you want, but given the looming and in some cases imminent financial problems facing several universities, the status quo won’t be in place for much longer.

Just don’t be too disappointed when your Labour government starts asking the sort of questions you’d rather ignore.

Fish in a barrel.,

 

[Postman Pep]

Spoke to a bursar on this subject this week. With the high mortgages many independent school parents have and the imminent school fee rise you would be astounded at how many are behind on payments. Also debated it with Stephen Kinnock a week or so ago. Think you would be very surprised. It’s happening anyway. Labour are getting in and this is a vote winner for them.

Sounds like these people need to get better at managing their finances. Maybe they should cut down on takeaways, get rid of Netflix and consider a cheap mobile with a SIM only plan?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Spoke to a bursar on this subject this week. With the high mortgages many independent school parents have and the imminent school fee rise you would be astounded at how many are behind on payments. Also debated it with Stephen Kinnock a week or so ago. Think you would be very surprised. It’s happening anyway. Labour are getting in and this is a vote winner for them.

Surely they can manage? After all the party you support say that you can make a meal for 30p

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2022-05-13/food-bank-row-tory-mp-lee-anderson-says-he-has-proven-he-can-make-meals-for-30p

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Do you seriously think I believe nurses are worthless?

Maybe not .... but the party you support does.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Politics of envy or the correct thing?

Interested to hear opinions?

Like many things in life it's complicated. Here's my take:

The charitable status and VAT loophole for private schools is obviously silly and there is a genuine argument for closing and/or reforming it. It would bring much needed revenue that could be spent on things like state schools and other public services.

However - not everyone who sends their kids to private school is a billionaire. Plenty of hard working parents choose to send their kids to private school and would be unable to if the fees went up by 20%+ overnight.

Not really sure what the solution is, my opinion is something should be done but it's not as easy as just saying ah let's whack VAT on all school fees. It would be damaging to many families who can just about afford to send their kids to these schools.

(I say this as someone who benefited from private education and whose parents fit into that bracket - they scrimped and saved and could just about afford to send me, even with a partial bursary. I also say this as someone who is politically centrist..)

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Like many things in life it's complicated. Here's my take:

The charitable status and VAT loophole for private schools is obviously silly and there is a genuine argument for closing and/or reforming it. It would bring much needed revenue that could be spent on things like state schools and other public services.

However - not everyone who sends their kids to private school is a billionaire. Plenty of hard working parents choose to send their kids to private school and would be unable to if the fees went up by 20%+ overnight.

Not really sure what the solution is, my opinion is something should be done but it's not as easy as just saying ah let's whack VAT on all school fees. It would be damaging to many families who can just about afford to send their kids to these schools.

(I say this as someone who benefited from private education and whose parents fit into that bracket - they scrimped and saved and could just about afford to send me, even with a partial bursary. I also say this as someone who is politically centrist..)

No ......but surely removing their exemption from paying VAT on school supplies should be a start ... either that or providing state schools with the same exemption (I think its called a level playing field)

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

No ......but surely removing their exemption from paying VAT on school supplies should be a start ... either that or providing state schools with the same exemption (I think its called a level playing field)

I haven't read up enough on this probably, but what difference would that make? Any VAT registered business can claim back VAT on purchases so whether they pay VAT or not is irrelevant? The difference would be on what VAT they charge parents - i.e zero at the moment but if levied would increase prices to parents, and generate money for the Treasury.

I am probs missing something here - genuinely interested.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

The main issue of course is that the families that will be most affected by it are the ones that are most deserving of sympathy. The people who never have a holiday and drive a shitty old car so they can send their kids to private school instead. The actual elite won't give much of a shit about a 20% increase in costs. Hell, it might even help keep some of the riff-raff out.

I don’t know about you but I’ve never spent an average of £15k per year on holidays in my life. Nor have I spent £15k per year on buying a new, non-shitty, car. To do so feels like an impossibility in this day and age so in my view if you can, good luck to you but don’t plead poverty or hardship when we have children from poor families being educated in dilapidated, crumbling buildings by harassed and stressed - and hugely underpaid - teachers. In no small part due to the billions being spent to give wealthy parents yet another tax break at their expense.
This is the education debate equivalent of boomers (who bought 3-bed suburban semis for £20k) arguing that todays young people would all be able to buy an (average price of £350k) house with a 10-15% deposit if they wanted to if only they would “cancel Netflix” and “work a bit harder like I did”.

Not necessarily aimed at you per se , more so at those smug scroungers pleading poverty from their £500k house, with their £80k car, getting themselves all bitter and twisted at the thought of sending their precious cargo to a school where they might have to mix with kids from a council estate.

Dirty, filthy, scroungers.

 

[metalblue]

It is what actually works for society that needs to be revalued: a banker will be repaying their student loan almost immediately but a teacher or nurse possibly never.

We should always question what we do, of course, but we have arrived at a situation of a failing economy, and a failing society, because of our values.

The distinction should be fairly straight forward. Anyone who gains a degree and works in the public sector giving back to society (nurse, doctor, teacher, army etc…not someone working as admin the local council office) for 5 years should have any student debt wiped. From the moment they walk through the door of that job they pay nothing back towards the loan.

That way teacher, nurses, doctors leave uni, walk into work and never pay a penny. Thats a fair society - now some might say just don’t charge uni fees but we want to make sure those that go straight into private sector are captured. I’m sure there are a few outliers here but I generally think that’s fair and right.

 

[oldius]

The distinction should be fairly straight forward. Anyone who gains a degree and works in the public sector giving back to society (nurse, doctor, teacher, army etc…not someone working as admin the local council office) for 5 years should have any student debt wiped. From the moment they walk through the door of that job they pay nothing back towards the loan.

That way teacher, nurses, doctors leave uni, walk into work and never pay a penny. Thats a fair society - now some might say just don’t charge uni fees but we want to make sure those that go straight into private sector are captured. I’m sure there are a few outliers here but I generally think that’s fair and right.

Perfectly good point.

 

[metalblue]

No ......but surely removing their exemption from paying VAT on school supplies should be a start ... either that or providing state schools with the same exemption (I think its called a level playing field)

Private schools do pay VAT on school supplies (books, IT etc), because they are not VAT registered they cannot reclaim it. They will be able to (and back date 10 years any previous VAT payments they made on building work) as soon as this happens.

If you want to level the playing field - as we absolutely should as this will make private schools largely obsolete- then let’s double the per pupil spend to bring it roughly in line with what it costs to send a kid to a non elite private school. So we add £50bn to the education budget - it’s an investment and I’d happily pay more tax to see it happen. Every single kid deserves the best education we can give them.

This country needs bold policies not the gesture politics of VAT on private schools that’ll be lucky if it generates £500m a year towards the treasuries coffers.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The distinction should be fairly straight forward. Anyone who gains a degree and works in the public sector giving back to society (nurse, doctor, teacher, army etc…not someone working as admin the local council office) for 5 years should have any student debt wiped. From the moment they walk through the door of that job they pay nothing back towards the loan.

That way teacher, nurses, doctors leave uni, walk into work and never pay a penny. Thats a fair society - now some might say just don’t charge uni fees but we want to make sure those that go straight into private sector are captured. I’m sure there are a few outliers here but I generally think that’s fair and right.

Agreed...but 7 years not five in the case of Doctors .

 

[arbabarshad]

Number of school closures, number of downsizing schools, number of redundancies on the way and large number of pupils on the way to state schools that may or may not have capacity to take them.

 

[Eebo]

Sounds like these people need to get better at managing their finances. Maybe they should cut down on takeaways, get rid of Netflix and consider a cheap mobile with a SIM only plan?

They need to cut back on the Avocados and make coffee in a flask at hiome instead of getting one at Costa's or wherever and they'll soon be able to afford it

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Number of school closures, number of downsizing schools, number of redundancies on the way and large number of pupils on the way to state schools that may or may not have capacity to take them.

Fantastic news. It's not the job of the state to subsidise private enterprise.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Number of school closures, number of downsizing schools, number of redundancies on the way and large number of pupils on the way to state schools that may or may not have capacity to take them.

There must surely be a mechanism to take those failed private schools into state hands. If not, there should be.

It’s no different to pubs when the government puts the duty up. Some go to the wall for various economic reasons. It happens. Taxes can squeeze things at both ends. Some businesses don’t survive that. The only answer is to never raise taxes, which is completely unsustainable. Choices have to be made about how we are going to make the books balance, and this choice was correct.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Number of school closures, number of downsizing schools, number of redundancies on the way and large number of pupils on the way to state schools that may or may not have capacity to take them.

Let's do the maths. 544,316 private school students paying an average of £6,944 a term (in 2022). Three terms a year, so average cost of £20,832. So at 20% each private school student will be contributing £4166 to the tax coffers per year. A year's education in the state sector costs £7,460. So the tax from two private school students will be (more than) enough to pay for one state school student. So in order for this to be a burden on the state sector, it would take more than 1 in 3 private school students dropping out and joining the state sector. Do you think that'll happen?

 

[Bluesince1979]

I don’t know about you but I’ve never spent an average of £15k per year on holidays in my life. Nor have I spent £15k per year on buying a new, non-shitty, car. To do so feels like an impossibility in this day and age so in my view if you can, good luck to you but don’t plead poverty or hardship when we have children from poor families being educated in dilapidated, crumbling buildings by harassed and stressed - and hugely underpaid - teachers. In no small part due to the billions being spent to give wealthy parents yet another tax break at their expense.
This is the education debate equivalent of boomers (who bought 3-bed suburban semis for £20k) arguing that todays young people would all be able to buy an (average price of £350k) house with a 10-15% deposit if they wanted to if only they would “cancel Netflix” and “work a bit harder like I did”.

Not necessarily aimed at you per se , more so at those smug scroungers pleading poverty from their £500k house, with their £80k car, getting themselves all bitter and twisted at the thought of sending their precious cargo to a school where they might have to mix with kids from a council estate.

Dirty, filthy, scroungers.

You seem bitter and maybe a tad jealous.

 

[arbabarshad]

Let's do the maths. 544,316 private school students paying an average of £6,944 a term (in 2022). Three terms a year, so average cost of £20,832. So at 20% each private school student will be contributing £4166 to the tax coffers per year. A year's education in the state sector costs £7,460. So the tax from two private school students will be (more than) enough to pay for one state school student. So in order for this to be a burden on the state sector, it would take more than 1 in 3 private school students dropping out and joining the state sector. Do you think that'll happen?

Maybe not but around 8%-10% of those kids are on bursaries who are most vulnerable. And then every 4-5 kids in a school support a job. Plus doing it mid academic year leaves lots of kids having to move school mid year.

If state education was fantastic, there wouldn't perhaps be a need for private schools but can any government be trusted to run a state institution fantastically?