Veganism

BlueTangerine said:
I don't know for 100% - I think it requires brains, nervous systems, sentience etc in order to "feel" anything. Fair play to you though, for admitting. It's refreshing for someone willing to be true to themselves.
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The first sentence was tongue in cheek. Tried vegetarian/vegan, but i just don't feel full.
Plus the undercrackers don't like the fall out;-)
 
Damocles said:
I consider animals a lower form of life than us as they lack consciousness and even rudimentary intelligence. They're essentially walking plants who we prescribe human values and behaviours to because it satiates our nurturing desire, biologically programmed to release endorphins and happy thoughts into us so we don't just leave our kids in the middle of a bush somewhere. The science behind what animals we find cute and not cute, edible and inedible is mostly about how they share similar characteristics to children.

I'm absolutely a speciest. I'd wipe out every white tailed deer in the world if it cured cancer and do it without a moment's hesitation.

The biggest evolutionary benefit to an animal now is to be useful to humans. That isn't even a debate, it's a fact as anybody who has looked at global chicken and populations or the decline of the global horse population over the past 100 years will attest to. We keep them and breed them in order to satisfy our hunger. The ones that irritate us are generally wiped out on a global scale unless they serve some purpose that we have identified.

Too many humans think they're above nature and because they have developed consciousness the rules just don't apply any longer. I say that's nonsense and a look at the ecological record shows it to be ignorant nonsense. We're still under the development of evolution, we're still shaping nature to fit us and adapting to the new conditions no different from any other animal on the planet. Animals constantly and consistently uproot and wipe out populations of other animals. We're just better at it then they are.

I don't have compassion for animals because I don't have compassion for bacteria, or viruses, or plants and see them ranked along the same lines. This doesn't mean I don't love my dog or have a collection of cat skulls in my basement, it means that although I love my dog I recognise it as ultimately inferior to every human being alive by almost every metric apart from my own sentimentality borne out of what is essentially my own invention.
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Oh good grief, I find myself needing to lock horns with you again and I know I'll give up when you reply because there'll be no chance of you changing view. There's so much wrong with what you wrote. Consciousness, come on reflect on yourself a little more, isn't that what bring a superior consciousness involves. People on here regularly tell you you're intelligent (and you lap it up with no modesty); what about your emotional intelligence? (see modern views on I.Q).

You don't have to be "above nature" to want to shape it. And it's a personal choice (vegans have a valid view, not mine but valid) if you choose not to kill animals you have compassion for (i.e. share certain feelings with, like sheep evidently missing their lost young).

You say you are speciest, but you showed no compassion (capacity to imagine the emotional pain of others, emotional intelligence) for the dead Wonga user. He was presumably a lower for of life too (idiot in your words). "lower" is bollox by the way; in evolution there's no such thing, just niches.

You seem so aggressive whenever emotional intelligence is required.

Don't reply, just show your self- consciousness and reflect.
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
The first sentence was tongue in cheek. Tried vegetarian/vegan, but i just don't feel full.
Plus the undercrackers don't like the fall out;-)
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ha, I just never know with some of the opinions i've read on this thread. (valid though they may be) It's not for everyone, I have read people really don't feel healthy after a while, something to do enzymes or something, and when they go back to meat they feel much better. Got to say though, the feeling full thing hasn't been an issue for me so far, because I eat that much rice and pasta I've put on weight, just need to find a proper level probably.
 
west didsblue said:
You never answered the point about the slaughter process being designed to minimise or eliminate pain.
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Well then they do know that they feel pain then.. Anaesthetic works on animals. I don't think it's much to brag about really anyway, and the slaughter process isn't full proof. The captive bolt to the head for example doesn't always work. But what about the conditions anyway? They suffer from them before they're killed.
 
Yaya_Tony said:
Couldn't agree more. If you won't eat lamb for example but you'll swat a fly or stamp on a spider, you're a hypocrite. Even if you do none of the above. You still use cleaning products, like bleach, and they kill shit. And you still eat dead vegetables. They were alive once. It's fucking bullshit to claim moral high ground over what you fucking choose to shovel down your pie hole. We all need to eat. What we choose to is no business of anyone else until some smarmy prick thinks his choice is better and goes off on one. Then this boring shit starts. No way will I back down from being an omnivore. Said before my own mother is vegan. She still roasted lamb for us on a Sunday. She kept her beliefs to herself and didn't tell us what to think. Her mother, my Nonna, is thankfully not a vegan and makes the greatest meat dishes, that my mother no longer experiences. Vegan I can get, if it makes you feel better go for it. But don't try to tell any other fucker what to do. You're just going to piss people off.
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extremely preachy post

fuck off with your beliefs
 
Yaya_Tony said:
How is it in any way preachy? That's exactly what I'm challenging.
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He was sort of backchanneling your previous post accusing somebody of being preachy about their beliefs into your post here expressing your beliefs.

Essentially, if you're ok expressing your mainstream beliefs about what people eat then it's not fair to say that others can't express their beliefs over what we eat.
 
Damocles said:
He was sort of backchanneling your previous post accusing somebody of being preachy about their beliefs into your post here expressing your beliefs.

Essentially, if you're ok expressing your mainstream beliefs about what people eat then it's not fair to say that others can't express their beliefs over what we eat.
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Simply put, I don't think anyone has any right to tell someone else what to do, especially about something as basic as a basic human function like eating. Obviously country's have laws but most are pretty basic. Don't kill other people and don't steal from them. Shit like that. I'm not going to force a kfc down their throat. I'm not going to force them spag bol. In fact if I cooked for any vegan, and I have, I'd use nothing but vegatables. It's not difficult. That's not the point though. No veggie can take moral high ground because my choice is to eat meat most days. The entire infastucture is right there and won't change anytime soon. Their choice is theirs and mine is mine. Anything else is bullshit (I'm really becoming a fan of that word at the moment)
 
nimrod said:
but thats what your doing

and imagine making your vegan mother cook meat for you , thats not very nice now is it.
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No I'm not. She did it when we were kids, despite her own beliefs because that was what was nutritionally best for us. She didn't, although she explained why she never ate it, force only vegetables to be eaten. That was almost 30 years ago when it started. She readily admits she used to love roast chicken, cottoletti (steak in breadcrumbs), battered cod, but can never eat it. That's a choice she made but she would not inflict that on my brothers and I. That's the difference. I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm telling people to do whatever they like and not tell others how to behave. It's what we eat. Whatever it is will be shitted out tomorrow anyway and the farms producing anything from lemons to beef will still be there, fishermen will still be getting in their boats. Because someone doesn't choose to eat a chicken, egg, cheeese, bacon, leg of lamb, a steak doesn't make them morally superior to tell everyone else how bad they are and shouldn't be eating it. It's their personal choice. And mine is to eat shit like that. I'm never going to tell them or anyone what to eat. It's up to the individual to choose what to eat. Eating these things doesn't make me a bad person, sometimes I like making things with only veg too. Just don't tell me I'm a bad guy because I like a ham and cheese toasty, fish from the chippy, pepperoni pizza, beef and tomato baguette, lamb with roasties and peas, or an omelette.
 
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The desire to eat meat is stronger than the empathy we feel for animals, that is true in most people

although some, vegans .....are the exception

but like someone pointed out, they still kill flies and bugs

was the op preaching or just giving his point of view ?
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
The growing face of veganism:

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Meat causes cancer? What a load of bullshit. That's the crappest excuse to eat only vegetables I've ever fucking heard. If it does many of us are fucked. Yet my grandparents are nearly 90 and ate meat all their life. Fucking bullshit and what a twat for thinking it is good to share that kind of misinformed idiocy on the world, as it's his view not the law. Vegatables are full of just as much crap.

*awaits somebody with a link telling me I'm wrong and meateating does cause cancer*
 
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