What has the UK become under the far right influence?

Brightwell’s left peg said:
You’ve clearly never been to a third world country (or even second world), or at least not lived in one.

You should try it. You’d appreciate what you have.
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yes I have 3rd, 2nd, 1st world an oitdated term but was a short quick answer to how we have let standards slip

As a term created during the cold war it was not always measured on levels of development but on government competence and corruption, international relations and trade, levels or poverty gaps between the richest and poorest and the state of national infrastructure in many ways on these we have regressed massively the last decade.
 
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urban genie said:
yes I have 3rd, 2nd, 1st world an oitdated term but was a short quick answer to how we have let standards slip

As a term created during the cold war it was not always measured on levels of development but on government competence and corruption, international relations and trade, levels or poverty gaps between the richest and poorest and the state of national infrastructure in many ways on these we have regressed massively the last decade.
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Sorry mate, but by no measure would the UK fall under a third world banner, either by original Cold War definition or any subsequent spin off definition.

I get that your post was probably hyperbole, but I see increasing numbers of posts decrying the UK, undoubtedly driven by social media minorities, and it just pisses me off. My first overseas job was in Nigeria. Would love to send anyone decrying the Uk there and live amongst them for a few months.

Democracy (whether you like the results or not), Education, Culture, Pubs.Bars/Restaurants/Entertainment, Sport, Climate, Countryside, Mountains, Coastlines/Beaches, easy accessibility to Europe etc etc.

It’s brilliant
 
This country is in need of one thing - radical reform.

The so-called 'democracy' is a sham. There is no real constitution, with checks and balances. Anything you might think of as constitutional can be changed by Parliament on a simple vote.

We get a vote every five years or so. In most constituencies, it doesn't actually matter if you vote or not, as it's a 'safe seat'. In a handful, on the other hand, your vote could literally decide which party governs! Why is a vote in Constituency A much more valuable than one in Constituency B?

In reality, the party with the largest minority of votes (at present the Tories, but it could be Labour soon) get virtually unlimited power for 5 years. During that time they can change their leader as many times as they like. They can change their policies to the direct opposite of what you voted for. They can pass new laws that were never even thought about at the previous GE. It's an elected dictatorship of the minority.

Is it better than living in Nigeria? Yes, undoubtedly. And far better than living in Uganda where £25 a month is a common wage. But this is largely due to our historic wealth. We are like an aristocrat living in a manor house that is slowly falling apart. No guarantee it will still be here in 50 years, as we are in gradual but inexorable decline. Can the situation be improved? Yes, undoubtedly, but only by people whose motto is 'Forward!' not by those who yearn to live in 1956.
 
BrianW said:
This country is in need of one thing - radical reform.

The so-called 'democracy' is a sham. There is no real constitution, with checks and balances. Anything you might think of as constitutional can be changed by Parliament on a simple vote.

We get a vote every five years or so. In most constituencies, it doesn't actually matter if you vote or not, as it's a 'safe seat'. In a handful, on the other hand, your vote could literally decide which party governs! Why is a vote in Constituency A much more valuable than one in Constituency B?

In reality, the party with the largest minority of votes (at present the Tories, but it could be Labour soon) get virtually unlimited power for 5 years. During that time they can change their leader as many times as they like. They can change their policies to the direct opposite of what you voted for. They can pass new laws that were never even thought about at the previous GE. It's an elected dictatorship of the minority.

Is it better than living in Nigeria? Yes, undoubtedly. And far better than living in Uganda where £25 a month is a common wage. But this is largely due to our historic wealth. We are like an aristocrat living in a manor house that is slowly falling apart. No guarantee it will still be here in 50 years, as we are in gradual but inexorable decline. Can the situation be improved? Yes, undoubtedly, but only by people whose motto is 'Forward!' not by those who yearn to live in 1956.
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More Hyperbole

I grew up in Ancoats, Beswick and Clayton. They were generally run down shit holes, though with a lot of good people, and the areas are being transformed in my lifetime, as they are in other parts of the Uk. They are not in in Inexorable decline…far from it, and visiting Manchester these days is rarely short of a great weekend…and the people i occasionally bring think it (and the Uk) are great.

Inexorable means impossible to stop or prevent. If the situation can be improved as you suggest, then it isn’t inexorable.

It’s your right to be down on the UK, but don’t expect everyone else to be on your downer.
 
When people can say, quite seriously and without hyperbole, that in a few years, we shall have a lower standard of living than Poland, that is decline, no matter how you dress it up. Poland, a country torn up by great powers for centuries, trampled underfoot, still recovering from decades of Soviet domination, and prior to that Nazi destruction.

The Republic of Ireland, a basketcase well within living memory, now has a GDP per capita far ahead of the UK. Tell me that isn't decline. Relative decline for sure.

We're miles ahead of the likes of Uganda, the Central African Republic and such places, sure, but there is no immutable law that says we have to be. To keep our place in the world we, as a country, are going to have to earn it. Sit on our laurels, be complacent, and we are fucked. And the decline is inexorable unless we do something about it! Which means, among other things, abandoning outdated institutions and attitudes.
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
Where would you go then instead, or indeed where have you been, to find the perfect place with only good people and no social issues?

I’ll save you some money/time. I’ve lived and worked in Canada, America and Australia to name but a few. You can give those a miss as they have bad people and social issues as well.

Let me know how you get on.

The UK is great all things considered, and most people are great. Could always be better (as could everywhere), but it could be a lot lot worse.
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Is this the Tories' new slogan?

Could be worse.

Mustn't grumble.

Dentist, what dentist?

Ignore the people in the gutter, look at the stars.
 
Vic said:
Is this the Tories' new slogan?

Could be worse.

Mustn't grumble.

Dentist, what dentist?

Ignore the people in the gutter, look at the stars.
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Oh I’m a Tory now. Right.

I guess I must have dreamed of all those people that were in the gutter when I was growing up with not a pot to piss in (my family amongst them).

It must be a new phenomenon that’s a symptom of what the UK’s become in recent years and the subject of this thread.
 
www.york.ac.uk

Children in the North most vulnerable to cost of living crisis

A new report, co-authored by a University of York academic, has warned that children living in the North of England are among the most vulnerable to rising living costs.
www.york.ac.uk www.york.ac.uk

Was in a meeting yesterday with a health economist who worked on the above report.

If you go north from london on the west or east coast main line your chance of being in poverty increases the further north you get.
 
Rascal said:
www.york.ac.uk

Children in the North most vulnerable to cost of living crisis

A new report, co-authored by a University of York academic, has warned that children living in the North of England are among the most vulnerable to rising living costs.
www.york.ac.uk www.york.ac.uk

Was in a meeting yesterday with a health economist who worked on the above report.

If you go north from london on the west or east coast main line your chance of being in poverty increases the further north you get.
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I don't doubt that at all, but I do wonder how much some of the obscene wealth in London/the South East inflates the average. I live in East London and it's not all bread and roses. That said, my folks live in Blackpool, and things are notably shitter there.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Don’t believe the hype on this forum about how bad Britain is. This country is bloody brilliant, I love living here and wouldn’t even think of living anywhere else.

Yeah there’s a handful of shit things, a minority of cunts and it could be better… a lot better! But day-to-day none of them have much impact on my life whatsoever. The few that do are maybe the shit roads and the litter/graffiti but they’re mainly Manchester problems because the roads and litter/graffiti situation in other places in this country are miles better. Oh, and the media (especially the sports media), they’re all cunts.

But other than that, the people I surround myself with, the people I listen to, the people I respect, the people who really have an impact on my life, the things I do in my spare time, the sport, the music, gigs, pubs, clubs, fashion, the weather (yes, I love the changeable weather and seasons), the countryside, the seaside, our cities, our villages, our history and historic sites, the food (yes, honestly, the food!), the low crime (especially murder) rate, our traditions, our humour, our stoicism, manners, helpfulness, kindness from - to reiterate - the fantastic people… all make this country great.

This miserable country hating bollocks from a minority of our own citizens is an embarrassment to be honest. Miserable people speak volumes about themselves, not about the country they live in. People who constantly pay attention to the wrong things, things they place importance on when they aren’t important, picking out negatives, dwelling on the negatives, are all part of their own problem with the country.

The only things that really matter are health and laughter.
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Misery loves company.
 
joe123 said:
I don't doubt that at all, but I do wonder how much some of the obscene wealth in London/the South East inflates the average. I live in East London and it's not all bread and roses. That said, my folks live in Blackpool, and things are notably shitter there.
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He went to great pains to point out that parts of London are amongst the most deprived in the country and London's wealth is an issue as it draws in more wealth, he even went to city that to some extent so does Manchester.

It was more concerted deprivation though than pockets.
 
After the last few days of total RW media and Tory hysteria over Gary Lineker daring to express an anti government opinion I am more than concerned about the future of our country than I have ever been.

Patriotism as described by Orwell is a love of ones country, it is a devotion to a place and way of life. It is by nature defensive rather than aggressive.

Mark Twain however described it as "your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you born in it"

Jocelyn Harmon for me describes Patriotism superbly.

Patriotism, is on the best sense of the word, is love of justice and democracy for all your fellow citizens

therefore study history and grapple with inequality, care for the weak and poor. If need be engage in civil disorder and fight racism and homophobia.

We as a country are losing the very ideals that made the UK a great country. The Tory right plough on regardless thinking the country is with them

I hope to fuck they aint, because otherwise we are fucked.
 
Rascal said:
After the last few days of total RW media and Tory hysteria over Gary Lineker daring to express an anti government opinion I am more than concerned about the future of our country than I have ever been.

Patriotism as described by Orwell is a love of ones country, it is a devotion to a place and way of life. It is by nature defensive rather than aggressive.

Mark Twain however described it as "your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you born in it"

Jocelyn Harmon for me describes Patriotism superbly.

Patriotism, is on the best sense of the word, is love of justice and democracy for all your fellow citizens

therefore study history and grapple with inequality, care for the weak and poor. If need be engage in civil disorder and fight racism and homophobia.

We as a country are losing the very ideals that made the UK a great country. The Tory right plough on regardless thinking the country is with them

I hope to fuck they aint, because otherwise we are fucked.
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I think the last few days have admirably demonstrated that Right Wing Conservative folk are the dumbest people alive and are an evolutionary dead end.

So, yes. The UK is fucked.
 
“I realise that patriotism is not enough, I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone.” Nurse Edith Cavell, before her execution, in 1916.

The problem with patriotism is it seems to be as much about hating the other as it does about loving one's own. I have come to despise nationalism, in all its forms, for that very reason. It leads to evil. If you can find a form of patriotism that is positive, and excludes hatred of 'other', then that is a noble thing. It amounts to wanting the best for your country and its people.

I don't hate this country. I want it to improve. To draw a parallel, if I had a son or daughter at school who was pissing about and falling well short of their capabilities, my wanting them to buck up would not mean I hated them. Au contraire, in fact.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Don’t believe the hype on this forum about how bad Britain is. This country is bloody brilliant, I love living here and wouldn’t even think of living anywhere else.

Yeah there’s a handful of shit things, a minority of cunts and it could be better… a lot better! But day-to-day none of them have much impact on my life whatsoever. The few that do are maybe the shit roads and the litter/graffiti but they’re mainly Manchester problems because the roads and litter/graffiti situation in other places in this country are miles better. Oh, and the media (especially the sports media), they’re all cunts.

But other than that, the people I surround myself with, the people I listen to, the people I respect, the people who really have an impact on my life, the things I do in my spare time, the sport, the music, gigs, pubs, clubs, fashion, the weather (yes, I love the changeable weather and seasons), the countryside, the seaside, our cities, our villages, our history and historic sites, the food (yes, honestly, the food!), the low crime (especially murder) rate, our traditions, our humour, our stoicism, manners, helpfulness, kindness from - to reiterate - the fantastic people… all make this country great.

This miserable country hating bollocks from a minority of our own citizens is an embarrassment to be honest. Miserable people speak volumes about themselves, not about the country they live in. People who constantly pay attention to the wrong things, things they place importance on when they aren’t important, picking out negatives, dwelling on the negatives, are all part of their own problem with the country.

The only things that really matter are health and laughter.
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Cheers mate. I'm glad you're happy with the UK. For peace of mind and psychological well-being.

That said, I support Gary Lineker's humanitarian stance and his posts that recently got him fired by the BBC. That the UK government even proposed the very law about which Lineker objects - speaks volumes.

The massive pushback on Lineker's stance and his dismissal from the BBC indicates to me, that the UK remains a country deeply divided. Is the UK really such a great, great place to live? - as you think? For you, it certainly seems so. But for the newly arrived immigrant? Or those needing temporary government assistance to get by?

It seems, rather, to me, that the UK is exactly the same as most of the world - full of hateful xenophobes, mistrustful of immigrants, hoping to Make America The UK Great Again. And yeah, I take your point that none of the people you personally interact with are this way - and yet - politicians pushing far right positions are elected to office in the UK and subsequently propose laws such as the recent one to which Lineker objects.

In terms of the BBC's firing of Lineker - I guess that's inevitable - as much as I agree with Lineker's position, the BBC is a commercial enterprise. Politically polarizing opinions made public by its employees will certainly impact the bottom line.

Playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment, though - what if the BBC simply decided to ignore Lineker's posts? Might that have been - in the long run - more profitable? There's bound to be financial impact from firing Lineker, thus seeming to take the side of conservatives.
 
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