What has the UK become under the far right influence?

[Kompany Car]

'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel

Ahmed Alhashimi spoke to the BBC after daughter Sara died when the family tried to make it to the UK in a small boat last week.

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite a hard read that.

It is a hard read, it is notable that...

"Belgium reportedly denied him asylum by arguing that Basra, his hometown in Iraq, was classified as a safe area. He said his children spent the last seven years staying with a relative in Sweden, but that he was recently informed that they would be deported, with him, to Iraq."

I do think that there is a bit of an image on this thread that other countries are more welcoming and that the UK is an outlier, which is clearly not the case. Of course that doesn't help people like this poor bugger.

 

[hilts]

Which is fine, but in doing so, you also voted for an open border policy. It doesn’t mean you endorse it, but it was in their manifesto.

No party is going to match all of a person’s wants/wishes, so you vote for the one that is closest.

In fairness I was replying to a poster who has spent a ridiculous amount of time, day after day, week after week etc... for years on these 2 subjects. I think it's somewhat hopeful to deflect with they may not be a priority.

I spend most time(nowhere near the amount of some) on the environment and our voting system. It would be somewhat odd if I didn't vote Green.

The rest of the time is showing people the gaping holes in their logic and their stupendous hypocrisy.

Anyhow he wanted the politicians to solve these complicated problems so I'm surprised he votes at all tbh.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

In fairness I was replying to a poster who has spent a ridiculous amount of time, day after day, week after week etc... for years on these 2 subjects. I think it's somewhat hopeful to deflect with they may not be a priority.

I spend most time(nowhere near the amount of some) on the environment and our voting system. It would be somewhat odd if I didn't vote Green.

The rest of the time is showing people the gaping holes in their logic and their stupendous hypocrisy.

Anyhow he wanted the politicians to solve these complicated problems so I'm surprised he votes at all tbh.

Fair enough.

I think we have 2 options. Revert to how it was when we were in the EU and Dublin agreement, or go more and more crazy creating more and more zany schemes to deflect away from the problem, without really resolving it.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

On the Rwanda scheme it seems they paid someone £3k plus airfare and board and lodgings for five years to go. Firstly, good luck to the person involved although I reckon they could have shook the Govt down for a larger up front payment and secondly, I don’t think paying and subsidising people to leave is going to be a deterrent- indeed for some it may be an incentive :)

Might become a lucrative career move.
I wonder how many times you could do it in a year?
I‘d imagine there are a couple of MP’s wondering how they can get in on the act already……

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Just states how bad the UK is that even asylum seekers want out.

 

[Chris in London]

Well France wont accept them back and they came from an EU country namely France, all they have done is skipped through the UK to get to another EU country. How is that our fault?

If the EU are doing very little to prevent them making the journey through their borders to France then how is that our issue if they make it to Ireland?

Because France and the UK were both parties to the Dublin agreement under which they would have been sent back to France, which is why pre-Brexit this wasn't a problem.

The regulations made under the Dublin agreement which compelled the French to accept our returnees no longer apply to us because we are no longer bound by the treaties that made that so.

In other words, this flows directly from Brexit because we are no longer parties to the very treaty which prevented this from happening - namely the Dublin agreement.

Funny how those who advocated Brexit aren't particularly shouting from the rooftops that this is a direct consequence. They all knew what they were voting for, after all. Even more funny that those shouting most loudly about this issue are exactly the same people who shouted so loudly in favour of Brexit in the first place.

 

[mexico1970]

Because France and the UK were both parties to the Dublin agreement under which they would have been sent back to France, which is why pre-Brexit this wasn't a problem.

The regulations made under the Dublin agreement which compelled the French to accept our returnees no longer apply to us because we are no longer bound by the treaties that made that so.

In other words, this flows directly from Brexit because we are no longer parties to the very treaty which prevented this from happening - namely the Dublin agreement.

Funny how those who advocated Brexit aren't particularly shouting from the rooftops that this is a direct consequence. They all knew what they were voting for, after all.

It doesn't change the fact that we are not in the EU anymore and that France wont take them back, time has moved on blaming the UK isn't helping in the slightest.

In fact the UK not allowing the EU to send them back is reciprocal, all the EU/France had to do is not allow them to get on boats to the UK in the first place.

We all know that all roads lead to Brexit and anything that happens after Brexit is just wrong, when the UK claim that we want to send migrants back there's an uproar but when Ireland ask for the same thing there's a gallery of nodders and winkers (SP) agreeing with them.

 

[Kinkybyname]

wonder which third-country destinations Von der Leyen is lining up?

 

[mexico1970]

wonder which third-country destinations Von der Leyen is lining up?

Von der Leyenâs EU group plans Rwanda-style asylum schemes

Centre-right European People’s party says it wants to create deportation deals with non-EU countries to head off rise of far right

www.theguardian.com

Whatever it is it will get the nod of approval from the obvious people.

 

[blueparrot]

It doesn't change the fact that we are not in the EU anymore and that France wont take them back, time has moved on blaming the UK isn't helping in the slightest.

In fact the UK not allowing the EU to send them back is reciprocal, all the EU/France had to do is not allow them to get on boats to the UK in the first place.

We all know that all roads lead to Brexit and anything that happens after Brexit is just wrong, when the UK claim that we want to send migrants back there's an uproar but when Ireland ask for the same thing there's a gallery of nodders and winkers (SP) agreeing with them.

Not being in the EU, has nothing to do with it, withdrawing from an international agreement that provided a joined up way of dealing with an EU wide problem is. There is nothing stopping us re joining the Dublin agreement and being grown up about finding some solutions.

 

[Worsleyweb]

A bit of a shithole hasnt it

 

[mexico1970]

Not being in the EU, has nothing to do with it, withdrawing from an international agreement that provided a joined up way of dealing with an EU wide problem is. There is nothing stopping us re joining the Dublin agreement and being grown up about finding some solutions.

Small point of order here, the migrants in Ireland want to claim asylum in Ireland and obviously it looks like Ireland don't want that.

 

[blueparrot]

Small point of order here, the migrants in Ireland want to claim asylum in Ireland and obviously it looks like Ireland don't want that.

They don't want migrants from a country outside the European wide Dublin agreement. Doesn't make our position as a country ouside the agreement any more tenable, or sensible.

 

[TinFoilHat]

wonder which third-country destinations Von der Leyen is lining up?

The United Kingdom?

 

[mexico1970]

They don't want migrants from a country outside the European wide Dublin agreement. Doesn't make our position as a country ouside the agreement any more tenable, or sensible.

I don't believe for one minute that our position is sensible, in fact I don't think any politicians solutions are tenable. The asylum process needs a complete overhaul with new international agreements and conditions as to what is done to process asylum seekers faster and to remove them faster if they fail those new recommendations.

As it stands they are Irelands problem not ours, blame all politicians not just ours who admittedly are a bit shit.

 

[Chris in London]

It doesn't change the fact that we are not in the EU anymore and that France wont take them back, time has moved on blaming the UK isn't helping in the slightest.

In fact the UK not allowing the EU to send them back is reciprocal, all the EU/France had to do is not allow them to get on boats to the UK in the first place.

We all know that all roads lead to Brexit and anything that happens after Brexit is just wrong, when the UK claim that we want to send migrants back there's an uproar but when Ireland ask for the same thing there's a gallery of nodders and winkers (SP) agreeing with them.

Of course it doesn't change the fact we are not in the EU any more. The current problem is a direct consequence of the fact that we aren't in the EU any more. Nor does it matter how much time has moved on, the simple fact is that the treaty obligations that stopped this from happening no longer apply to either party. Brexit was, in other words, a two way street. This is not some short-term problem - this is the new normal. It's how things are as a result of Brexit. Nothing more, nothing less.

The simple fact is that what was previously not a problem because of the agreements that the UK was party to was made a problem as a direct consequence of our withdrawal from the EU and the treaties that govern it. Likewise, yesterday we started sending food imported from the EU for checks at a depot 20 miles from Dover, a move the Government themselves think will add £300m a year to the cost of imported food. They ae the consequences of what happens when you choose to depart from a block of nations who are all bound by common rules on a huge range of issues. It really is nothing more and nothing less than that.

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

 

[blueparrot]

I don't believe for one minute that our position is sensible, in fact I don't think any politicians solutions are tenable. The asylum process needs a complete overhaul with new international agreements and conditions as to what is done to process asylum seekers faster and to remove them faster if they fail those new recommendations.

As it stands they are Irelands problem not ours, blame all politicians not just ours who admittedly are a bit shit.

So an international solution to and international problem. I agree, it may need updating and improving but at the moment the best and only one availabe is the Dublin agreement, the longer we stay out and isolated the less influence we will have, the longer we wait the worse it will get.

 

[Kinkybyname]

Of course it doesn't change the fact we are not in the EU any more. The current problem is a direct consequence of the fact that we aren't in the EU any more. Nor does it matter how much time has moved on, the simple fact is that the treaty obligations that stopped this from happening no longer apply to either party. Brexit was, in other words, a two way street. This is not some short-term problem - this is the new normal. It's how things are as a result of Brexit. Nothing more, nothing less.

The simple fact is that what was previously not a problem because of the agreements that the UK was party to was made a problem as a direct consequence of our withdrawal from the EU and the treaties that govern it. Likewise, yesterday we started sending food imported from the EU for checks at a depot 20 miles from Dover, a move the Government themselves think will add £300m a year to the cost of imported food. They ae the consequences of what happens when you choose to depart from a block of nations who are all bound by common rules on a huge range of issues. It really is nothing more and nothing less than that.

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

I may be wrong but I think it's the not seeking asylum in France (safe country and all that) that is the point in question here

 

[Chris in London]

I may be wrong but I think it's the not seeking asylum in France (safe country and all that) that is the point in question here

There's no obligation to do so. You can transit through country A and claim asylum in country B perfectly legitimately under the Vienna convention.

Likewise, there is no obligation on anyone to claim asylum in the UK if their intention is to claim asylum in Ireland. The problem seems to be that some of those the Irish want to send back have already claimed asylum in the UK. If they have, the Irish are entirely justified in sending them back. If not, the position is exactly the same as with France/UK crossings.

 

[mexico1970]

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

The French are allowing these people to enter the UK or at the very least doing nothing special to stop them, they are not accepting any returns either.

It's Ireland and the EU that are complaining about what we are doing, it's up to them to solve it. All we are doing is not accepting migrants who have migrated to another country which is what the French/Eu do.

These migrants in particular want to apply for asylum in Ireland let's allow Ireland to process them instead of forcing them over a border they don't want to go.