What has the UK become?

[Worsleyweb]

A bit of a shithole hasnt it

 

[mexico1970]

Not being in the EU, has nothing to do with it, withdrawing from an international agreement that provided a joined up way of dealing with an EU wide problem is. There is nothing stopping us re joining the Dublin agreement and being grown up about finding some solutions.

Small point of order here, the migrants in Ireland want to claim asylum in Ireland and obviously it looks like Ireland don't want that.

 

[blueparrot]

Small point of order here, the migrants in Ireland want to claim asylum in Ireland and obviously it looks like Ireland don't want that.

They don't want migrants from a country outside the European wide Dublin agreement. Doesn't make our position as a country ouside the agreement any more tenable, or sensible.

 

[TinFoilHat]

wonder which third-country destinations Von der Leyen is lining up?

The United Kingdom?

 

[mexico1970]

They don't want migrants from a country outside the European wide Dublin agreement. Doesn't make our position as a country ouside the agreement any more tenable, or sensible.

I don't believe for one minute that our position is sensible, in fact I don't think any politicians solutions are tenable. The asylum process needs a complete overhaul with new international agreements and conditions as to what is done to process asylum seekers faster and to remove them faster if they fail those new recommendations.

As it stands they are Irelands problem not ours, blame all politicians not just ours who admittedly are a bit shit.

 

[Chris in London]

It doesn't change the fact that we are not in the EU anymore and that France wont take them back, time has moved on blaming the UK isn't helping in the slightest.

In fact the UK not allowing the EU to send them back is reciprocal, all the EU/France had to do is not allow them to get on boats to the UK in the first place.

We all know that all roads lead to Brexit and anything that happens after Brexit is just wrong, when the UK claim that we want to send migrants back there's an uproar but when Ireland ask for the same thing there's a gallery of nodders and winkers (SP) agreeing with them.

Of course it doesn't change the fact we are not in the EU any more. The current problem is a direct consequence of the fact that we aren't in the EU any more. Nor does it matter how much time has moved on, the simple fact is that the treaty obligations that stopped this from happening no longer apply to either party. Brexit was, in other words, a two way street. This is not some short-term problem - this is the new normal. It's how things are as a result of Brexit. Nothing more, nothing less.

The simple fact is that what was previously not a problem because of the agreements that the UK was party to was made a problem as a direct consequence of our withdrawal from the EU and the treaties that govern it. Likewise, yesterday we started sending food imported from the EU for checks at a depot 20 miles from Dover, a move the Government themselves think will add £300m a year to the cost of imported food. They ae the consequences of what happens when you choose to depart from a block of nations who are all bound by common rules on a huge range of issues. It really is nothing more and nothing less than that.

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

 

[blueparrot]

I don't believe for one minute that our position is sensible, in fact I don't think any politicians solutions are tenable. The asylum process needs a complete overhaul with new international agreements and conditions as to what is done to process asylum seekers faster and to remove them faster if they fail those new recommendations.

As it stands they are Irelands problem not ours, blame all politicians not just ours who admittedly are a bit shit.

So an international solution to and international problem. I agree, it may need updating and improving but at the moment the best and only one availabe is the Dublin agreement, the longer we stay out and isolated the less influence we will have, the longer we wait the worse it will get.

 

[Kinkybyname]

Of course it doesn't change the fact we are not in the EU any more. The current problem is a direct consequence of the fact that we aren't in the EU any more. Nor does it matter how much time has moved on, the simple fact is that the treaty obligations that stopped this from happening no longer apply to either party. Brexit was, in other words, a two way street. This is not some short-term problem - this is the new normal. It's how things are as a result of Brexit. Nothing more, nothing less.

The simple fact is that what was previously not a problem because of the agreements that the UK was party to was made a problem as a direct consequence of our withdrawal from the EU and the treaties that govern it. Likewise, yesterday we started sending food imported from the EU for checks at a depot 20 miles from Dover, a move the Government themselves think will add £300m a year to the cost of imported food. They ae the consequences of what happens when you choose to depart from a block of nations who are all bound by common rules on a huge range of issues. It really is nothing more and nothing less than that.

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

I may be wrong but I think it's the not seeking asylum in France (safe country and all that) that is the point in question here

 

[Chris in London]

I may be wrong but I think it's the not seeking asylum in France (safe country and all that) that is the point in question here

There's no obligation to do so. You can transit through country A and claim asylum in country B perfectly legitimately under the Vienna convention.

Likewise, there is no obligation on anyone to claim asylum in the UK if their intention is to claim asylum in Ireland. The problem seems to be that some of those the Irish want to send back have already claimed asylum in the UK. If they have, the Irish are entirely justified in sending them back. If not, the position is exactly the same as with France/UK crossings.

 

[mexico1970]

The reason I first replied to you is that you were blaming the French for what is a direct consequence of Brexit. In other words, you seem to think the French should have continued to apply the treaty obligations that no longer bind them, but the UK should be free from precisely those obligations.

If you can't see why the UK wanting to have its cake and eat it really doesn't work, I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

The French are allowing these people to enter the UK or at the very least doing nothing special to stop them, they are not accepting any returns either.

It's Ireland and the EU that are complaining about what we are doing, it's up to them to solve it. All we are doing is not accepting migrants who have migrated to another country which is what the French/Eu do.

These migrants in particular want to apply for asylum in Ireland let's allow Ireland to process them instead of forcing them over a border they don't want to go.