Will Patching

Discussion in 'EDS and Academy Forum' started by twosips, 1 Oct 2015.

  1. WallyA

    WallyA

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    I really don't understand this line of thinking.

    Trent-Alexander Arnold is only 21 and has been the best RB in the world for 2 years (so from 20-21, he just turned 21 years old).

    Barcelona played a young Messi in their team and reaped the rewards by playing him in the first team, he becomes the goat.

    I just refuted the 2 teams you used as examples to NOT play youth. Note that they don't have to play alot of youth, but some? I think all teams can get some in assuming they have talent.

    Nobody is saying City needs a bunch of youngsters in the team, but to say we don't have one player who is a standout and can perform within this team is nonsensical, we even had 3 players (Sancho, Foden and Diaz) who were clearly destined to make it to top teams (and they already have) so the talent is there for us to use, we just have to make sure we don't lose them.
     
  2. BosnianBlue

    BosnianBlue

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    You don't need a better test of "should City play more youngsters" than looking at those that many were screaming to be included and who left the club. How many are making it anywhere close of City level? City have a bloody great record of valuing youngsters and selling them if deemed not good enough.

    It's same with other big clubs. TAA is exceptional young player, but how many other Liverpool youngsters are starting in their team? Zero. Foden will be as regular a him at 21 and he had waaaaaay harder competition at his position than TAA had at his. If Liverpool had RB of David/KDB quality, TAA wouldn't have as many games at 21 as he has, he'd sit on the bench even now probably or would have maybe gone already. He developed at just about the very right time and he is very, very good, one of those that big clubs' academies produce each few years.

    How many players from academy did Barcelona produce for their first team since that generation from 10 years ago that happened once in their million moons? Why are that generation and Rags 92 one always mentioned ? Because they are anomalies that happen very, very rare. Heck, I'm looking even et kids football here in my town and there are few football schools that live for a decade on having a luck to produce one good age group and people are lining to pay them to train their kids because of that, despite 5 age groups before and after that one being shit.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2019
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  3. WallyA

    WallyA

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    Do you think there is a noticeable drop in quality to any starting 11 if you replace 1 attacking midfielder or forward with a promising youngster?

    I would wager its not a big deal because its not like they are a defensive liability and if they offer any new outlets to the attack or surprise us then its a pure benefit.

    People want to bring up Barca, they were "forced" to give Ansu Fati some minutes this season (at 16, just turned 17) and now he has almost become a starter for them, he would never have gotten this chance if it weren't for their injury problems and maybe wouldn't have gotten minutes until he was much older and by then maybe something went wrong with his development.

    Now I'm not saying we have to give the odd 17 year old a chance in our starting 11 but, our most promising youngsters who are 19-20? I think they deserve the chance to impress and if they do they should get more chances.

    Somebody mentioned it earlier but Barker was the perfect example, everybody was raving about him, and he was decent in his cameo, but then we ruined it.

    As for other players who were definitely deserving of more of a chance at City and have shown good stuff elsewhere, Denayer and Rony Lopes come to mind, on top of the obvious Sancho, Diaz from more recently.
     

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  4. BosnianBlue

    BosnianBlue

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    Yes, I do think it is noticeable drop, if you do it regularly. It's even a noticeable drop if you have a youngster on the bench, instead of pro, unless that youngster is extraordinary talent. You don't put Foden on the pitch if you have David Silva, until he is not able to walk two consecutive matches.

    Despite Liverpool's anomaly, you don't usually get this good as they are currently, without big quality squad, not only the first 11. You put youngster on the bench and get him on from the bench and one senior player is getting less time that he might lack anyway when he's not a regular starter.

    That can go on with teams like Southampton, even with Spurs where trophy is not "must", only top 4, but at City, where not winning any of the competition you started is somewhat looked like a failure, it can't.

    City will never play too many kids unless they are looking to be world's superstars. Why would manager who is expected to win everything, risk his job and reputation while not playing more established and quality players? He's got zero incentive to play the kids. People can go mad about it as long as they want, but it is winning things or playing lot of kids. Both can happen once in a lifetime, but not regularly and people running the club are not gamblers, they will go with the option that has better winning odds.

    PS. I don't see Denayer and Lopes playing in the clubs anywhere close to ones that are competing with City. People were saying same stuff for Suarez and he did nothing. Diaz is not really Real Madrid star. etc, etc.. Trippier made it and Sancho looks like he will do though City wanted to keep him. We've got a great record of valuing the quality of young players we sell. Barely any of them would play for City now and we've won few things without them.

    Be careful what you wish guys. Arsenal fans were happy to have youth in their team decade ago and look how it finished for them.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2019
  5. WallyA

    WallyA

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    All I can say is I disagree with about everything you said, especially when you say that putting a young player on the bench is a risk I can’t really take you seriously.

    We are going in circles and won’t reach common ground.
     
  6. alexmcity

    alexmcity

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    You refuted nothing. TAA didn't start some of the more difficult games last season like City at Anfield and Barca away. Obviously, Klopp didn't think he was the best RB in the world. The latter is just not true. No way was TAA the best RB 2 years ago or even a year ago. He isn't even a firm starter for England. By the time Foden turns 21 chances are he will be a bigger star than TAA is now. Besides, the expectations over Klopp and Pep are quite different. Klopp will be a hero for the dippers even if he fails to win the PL once, whereas Pep would have been a failure without 1 or even 2 PL titles.

    And to give an example with Messi is pointless. He is one of the most talented players ever. We don't have a Messi in our academy, obviously.
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2019
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  7. BosnianBlue

    BosnianBlue

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    Well, the senior player, bought for 40-50 mil. who is left out of the team completely if youngster takes his place on the bench, will take me seriously. City are where we are because our squad is second to none and that is because we aimed to have two top class players on each position so we can fight on many fronts. Sorry to ruin romantics, but there will barely be place for youngsters in club with such policy.
     
  8. Centurions

    Centurions

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    Trent-Alexander Arnold the best RB in the world for 2 years? Seriously?

    I actually stopped reading when you then use Messi (the best player in the world) as your 2nd example. Jeez...
     
  9. WallyA

    WallyA

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    The argument was we cant have any young players in the team, then the poster used Barca and liverpool as examples for which I easily disproved.

    I'm not even sure what you are arguing with me about, my argument is we can have a few youngsters over time in a team of this level and over the last 10 years of having this great academy have only integrated 1 player in Foden.

    We could have done better.
     
  10. WallyA

    WallyA

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    I read no risk involved In what you wrote.
     

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