Zonal Marking...???

Agree with quite a few here, just a real misunderstanding of the whole topic really creates a "taboo" about zonal marking...it's worked well for us in the past and will work well for us in the future.
 
I think the mistake that critics make is to assume that the goals conceded against Ajax were the result of zonal marking. They were not. They were the failure to mark as a team. No advocate of zonal marking would argue that the posts are zones which need not be marked. No advocate would argue that the nicely lined yellow box in the recordings is a part of the pitch which can be ignored. But that was what City did. Weactually abandoned zonal marking: we actually abandoned ALL marking with predictable results. In the second goal Ya Ya is said to have let his man go. This is true - because his man left his zone. The problem was that no-one was taking responsibility for the zone he moved into and so no-one attacked the ball when de Jong did. This resulted in a free header.

As has been pointed out, zonal marking tries to prevent defenders getting in each other's way and, also, to prevent chaos when an attacker escapes his "man-marker". But players must have a clearly understood zone of responsibility and, presumably, some City players ignored theirs.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Agree with quite a few here, just a real misunderstanding of the whole topic really creates a "taboo" about zonal marking...it's worked well for us in the past and will work well for us in the future.

Good - though hardly surprising - to see that the majority on here have got a far clearer grasp on it than our TV 'experts'
 
I think the problem with zonal marking is it puts guys in a non-agressive position to start. Instead of attacking the ball they are standing still waiting for people to come to them. It also causes confusion between the players weather they should stay in their spot or go attack the ball. When everyone does their job it works well, but when 1 player doesn't it ends up in the back of the net.
 
This article (from the appropriately named Zonal Marking website) explains it quite well:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/11...ing-forces-mancini-to-change-shape/#more-9228

Ajax raced into an early two-goal lead, but Manchester City pulled it back.

Roberto Mancini chose an unusual formation – something like a lopsided 4-2-3-1. Pablo Zabaleta returned to the side, while Javi Garcia and Sergio Aguero came in for Edin Dzeko and Mario Balotelli.

From the XI that defeated City 3-1 in Amsterdam, Frank de Boer dropped Tobias Sana and recalled Derk Boerrigter.

This was a peculiar match with a few different points of interest – City’s formation, Ajax’s pressing, and City’s continued struggles when defending set-plays.

City formation

Mancini has used something similar to this system previously – away at Napoli last season, for example, Balotelli was high up on the left – but it didn’t seem to work with this combination of players. Aguero didn’t look comfortable on the left and strayed inside, resulting in lack of width (covered by Gareth Barry’s movement to that side towards the end of the first half, which made the problem less obvious). Samir Nasri’s role was also a little confused – was he stretching the play or coming inside?

Carlos Tevez was upfront, pretty much on his own. He used to play that false nine role excellently, but no-one was exploiting the space created with his movement towards the ball, as Yaya Toure was forced into deeper positions because the holding midfielders struggled to get the ball forward.

Nasri was too far away, and although a couple of times his movement inside dragged Daley Blind out of position, creating a promising situation for Tevez to the right, this was rather the opposite of City’s intentions.

Aguero didn’t seem to understand his purpose on the left. Aguero and Tevez combined excellently at the end of last season as a standard front two, with Tevez dropping deep and Aguero making runs over the top – it was a shame Mancini didn’t use that format here.

Ajax pressing

Ajax had been positive in the reverse fixture a fortnight ago. As outlined excellently by 11tegen11, the surprise use of Christian Eriksen as a false nine worked very nicely, and De Boer continued with that system here.

Equally encouragingly, Ajax continued to press high up the pitch. This wasn’t frantic chasing for the sake of it (Eriksen moved towards the two centre-backs to close them down, but neither are particularly incisive with their passing and therefore didn’t need to be shut down urgently) but instead measured, intelligent pressure.

Ajax seemed to know that if they prevented simple passes towards Javi Garcia and Gareth Barry (with Siem de Jong and Lasse Schöne) City would find it difficult to get the ball forward, with neither of the two midfielders comfortable receiving the ball into pressure. This worked well, and City had to bring either Nasri or Toure deeper away from their marker get the forward passes going. Ajax weren’t creating much, but they were stopping City playing.

Set-pieces

Ajax went ahead with two simple goals from corners, an area Manchester City have struggled from this season. As is customary, zonal defending got the majority of the blame, but the situation was more complex, as City were playing a ‘mixed’ system – part-zonal, part-man marking. In fact, it’s extremely rare to see a side that defends entirely man-for-man – certain zones are generally occupied anyway, particularly at the near post (almost by necessity, as the defending side always have a surplus of players in the box).

Anyway, the goals were actually conceded because of poor man-marking – Toure simply let de Jong go free for both goals. That said, the second concession was also a poor goal to concede from a zonal perspective – the position de Jong headed the ball from was the ‘first’ zone a side is supposed to concentrate on defending. Barry was there, but very deep and close to the post. Some sides (England under Fabio Capello, for example) defend with two men in that position, which brings more security.

Either way, City had eight versus four in the box for the corners – to concede two such cheap goals was criminal.

City changes

City got a goal back before half-time, but really improved in the second half after Balotelli replaced Garcia. This was more like the City of last season – Barry and Toure together in midfield, Balotelli driving from the left, Nasri coming inside to become a playmaker, and that Tevez-Aguero combination, with the latter on the shoulder of the last defender.

The style of the game turned – Ajax tried to cool the tempo from an early stage, but tired and their ball retention skills became less impressive. The game became more ‘English’, and despite the wide range of nationalities on the pitch, it was amazing how much Ajax dominated when the game was ‘Dutch’ – about pressing and good possession, and the extent to which City came into the game when it became about crosses and long balls. Their equaliser was the most classic English goal you’ll see – a long Joe Hart clearance, a Balotelli flick-on, and an Aguero finish.

Conclusion

In one sense Mancini’s changes were highly effective at getting City back into the game – but really, he just moved back to a regular system. The first-half shape was narrow and disjointed – it didn’t exploit Tevez’s ability to create space.

Ajax’s pressing was the main feature of the game – the way they moved up the pitch together in such a cohesive fashion was very impressive, and true to the club’s philosophy. City had problems last year because they didn’t move the ball impressively in deep positions – the signing of Garcia was supposed to improve thing, but he’s yet to have a significant impact.
 
Zonal marking is by far a better system than man marking, it is easier to work on in training as you set up the same no matter who the opponent and when applied properly it statistically is superior to man marking as an earlier poster mentioned problems arise with man marking with all the movement and blocking off of players meaning the chance of error is higher than with zonal marking

problems arise with zonal marking when players starting positions are wrong as in Barry's with the 2nd last night he should be looking to be further forward of the near post in that instance players should also look to attack the ball and be more aggressive from that point of view

I do agree that zonal marking allows for players to pass on responsibility as far as well it's not in my zone but really all players should be ready to attack the ball and if that means leaving your zone to do this so be it, it doesn't mean just stand there, when this happens it allows for attacking players to get a run on players with the outcome we saw last night

The other thing I noticed from last night it wasn't full zonal there was a degree of marking so this could be causing confusion as we didn't do this last season

For me zonal is far better than marking but for it to be successful player positioning especially at the front post has to be spot on and everyone involved needs to be prepared to move there feet and attack the ball no matter which zone it drops in
 
Damanino said:
1352232246133.gif
This is why I like when Dzeko plays, he always drops back to defend set pieces, his height advantage helps a lot as well.. I don't see our single striker there dropping back to defend. Even after we conceded the first goal. This has been a pattern I've been noticing for awhile.
 
answer to your valid question is a fat simple NONE , its bollax man , you cannot defend from static against a moving target, if a forward moves between zones its confusing the situation not to mention if two or the happen to be in your "zone" then what ? crazy way of doing things . imagine an army defending a stronghold like that , ???????????
 
John.des said:
Damanino said:

Wow really an utter joke goal to concede.
3 Ajax players basically in the box the 4th is very close to the line anyway. (While Nasri is just in the box.)
So it is basically 3 Ajax players vs. 7 City players. And the goal is a clear header.

Something clearly wrong with the zones here, someone should be lot closer to that zone the edge of the six yard box.

??? why is there no one one the front and back post , they would have stopped it ????????
 
The one thing to note of that .gif of the second goal is that Javi Garcia is man marking. The man he is man marking manages to still get a run on him and if the ball would have reached him, he was goal side and likely would have scored.

Shows there is flaw to any system when a error is made by one player
 

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