So why even reference that article? You didn't think that "zionist Ukraine" rang warning bells about "strategic culture"? Probably more former nazis at NASA than involved in forming the EU.
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Absolute cobblers. If Very Hard Brexit is the offer then you can expect the case for staying "stuff the referendum result" to gain traction as that is not what was on offer. A nice soft Brexit might have had even Remainers on board.There is a lot in that which is really quite obvious - and for a while now a very hard Brexit has been the likely 'best deal' that is available.
As for taking back control, we're exchanging carefully worked out and democratically approved (in all EU countries) regulations for a system where the Government - not Parliament - will decide on the hoof which regulations will be thrown out.
The Light Was Yellow Sir
Well-Known Member
At least we'll be able to eat chlorine soaked chicken and hormone infested beef from our US trade partners, so it's not all bad....Absolute cobblers. If Very Hard Brexit is the offer then you can expect the case for staying "stuff the referendum result" to gain traction as that is not what was on offer. A nice soft Brexit might have had even Remainers on board.
As for taking back control, we're exchanging carefully worked out and democratically approved (in all EU countries) regulations for a system where the Government - not Parliament - will decide on the hoof which regulations will be thrown out.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Leavers should really cut the Brexit bullshit now and stop making excuses in advance.There is a lot in that which is really quite obvious - and for a while now a very hard Brexit has been the likely 'best deal' that is available.
The reasons for this (blame if you like) lies foursquare with the attitude of the EU - there is not a lot that the UK could/can do about this - other than to just go belly-up and accede the EU's demands.
We have also set out our course and are sticking with it - despite, so far, the best efforts of those with vested interests to undermine the UK's position. We have set out our stall and with the defeating of the wrecker 'meaningful vote' amendment then the UK has secured the only negotiating position from which there may be a positive outcome - the clear and viable option to 'walk-away'.
The UK should not be overly-phased, we need to follow the journey with resolution and free ourselves of the EU yoke to allow us to then plot a self-determined future.
The EU were never ever going to offer anything whilst they had the ability to present a 'stand-off'. With the issue of A50, they are down to their 'remaining stand-off card' - the stance of no negotiations until agreement on the exit bill.
We simply have to face that down and demand, with equal insistence, that there will be no discussion on 'money' until we have agreed a framework for the negotiations that we are satisfied with.
It might actually get that simple - neither party budge and the talks breakdown and we walk-away - with our money. Until the EU face that risk and with it the consequences for all the investment initiatives they have already committed themselves to they will likely not budge.
We just need to back our negotiating team and be prepared for a deal of project fear and doom-mongering rumours. The intransigence will flow from them and only our strength of will and determination will make them budge. We need to shift from us to the EU the 'mantle of trepidation' about the talks failing.
Come back in two years with a trade deal which AT LEAST means we are no worse off in the short term ( say two years) and better off in the long term - you should do better. Obviously no payments to the EU either now or in the future.
Immigration numbers should be drastically reduced to the 'tens of thousands', security, citizens rights,
employee rights, quality of life etc.etc. should be better after Brexit.
No more excuses please.
You won as you like to keep reminding us, so now it's your responsibility to sort it out.
Just get on with it.
PS Don't forget the extra £350M a week for the NHS, doesn't matter if the other side told lies as well - they lost.
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I tried, but I actually could not get through that. It could have been written by a number of posters on here - it certainly was not written by someone with an ounce of objective journalism in them
denislawsbackheel
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In which case let me reassure you
It is spot fucking on.
It is spot fucking on.
blueonblue
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Indeed. If that is the case, the pain on both sides will not be distributed equitably. The pain the EU will suffer will be shared across 27 countries, some more than others. We will feel it more than anyone else.
Utter tosh of the worst kind because it flies in the face of what anyone see`s and does every day, why do you buy from or sell to anyone ?, because you like them ?, maybe you admire their political believes ?, or could it be as simple as they are buying or selling something you want/need at a price acceptable to you.
The whole nonsense is assuming that all 27 countries are equal when they clearly are not, there are member states that will go to the wall without our trade and they and you both know it, then they have to be bailed out (Like Greece?) or more likely can not stump up the membership fee`s so the other members are also in shit street.
However if the EU does get away with acting the dictator and all the member states comply there is a big wide world out there who will be happy to gain markets in the fifth largest economy in the world, we are not on the shitty end of the stick, the EU is.
Absolute cobblers. If Very Hard Brexit is the offer then you can expect the case for staying "stuff the referendum result" to gain traction as that is not what was on offer. A nice soft Brexit might have had even Remainers on board.
As for taking back control, we're exchanging carefully worked out and democratically approved (in all EU countries) regulations for a system where the Government - not Parliament - will decide on the hoof which regulations will be thrown out.
You and the rest of the Remain cheerleaders simply do not live in the real world.
You are so loved up with the EU and desperate to support anything that will do Brexit down that you pontificate about stuff you clearly have little understanding of and zero motivation to make any effort to learn.
I mean in this regard the handling of negotiations - it is no surprise that the EU have been used to steamrolling any resistance for decades - they have faced the governments whose people(s) have zero backbone, are too lazy and lacking objectivity to gather a real understanding and need to be herded like sheep.
It does not matter if people voted leave or remain - from a negotiating POV, I would make exactly the same comments if I had voted Remain. People just need to get on with where we are rather than continuing to fight the pre-23/06 campaign
It is not the UK that is refusing the 'nice soft Brexit' option - or even the pretty firm one - or indeed any other in the possible range. The EU are taking actions to bolster what is likely their last remaining card - to try and force the UK into accepting a bad deal, effectively remaining, through influencing the weak-mindedness and ignorance about the negotiations that is clearly prevalent across so much of our nation. Some of the posters on this forum are evidence of why they should be so confident that we are indeed so weak-minded.
It is only when those cards are played out and they face the reality that not only can the UK walk away - we will and due to a lack of a forward path - stop all contributions with immediate effect. It is likely only at that point that the EU will have to reconsider the range of settlements that it can accommodate - it is called negotiations!!
Sorry - your lack of considering the fundamental facts of the situation I outlined and especially the silliness of that last statement about regulations, means that you are the one talking cobblers. Also, you and others, are so fucking closed that explaining the facts of what I typed - even in the most mickey mouse terms - would likely be a total waste of time.
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Leavers should really cut the Brexit bullshit now and stop making excuses in advance.
Come back in two years with a trade deal which AT LEAST means we are no worse off in the short term ( say two years) and better off in the long term - you should do better. Obviously no payments to the EU either now or in the future.
Immigration numbers should be drastically reduced to the 'tens of thousands', security, citizens rights,
employee rights, quality of life etc.etc. should be better after Brexit.
No more excuses please.
You won as you like to keep reminding us, so now it's your responsibility to sort it out.
Just get on with it.
PS Don't forget the extra £350M a week for the NHS, doesn't matter if the other side told lies as well - they lost.
Just get on with it.
We are - and thanks to a number of influential people having some backbone and sense - there are reasons for a cautious level of optimism.
Still there will be many hurdles to overcome and most of those are likely to be 'own goals' from scheming politicians with vested interests taking advantage of the concerns of so many gullible people
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
Can't be any worse than that phenylbutazone infected horse meat we were eating supplied by our European friends.At least we'll be able to eat chlorine soaked chicken and hormone infested beef from our US trade partners, so it's not all bad....
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