How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Will they actually realise that though…If forecasts are correct and we lose ~3% of GDP over time will they notice?

Fair point. Some will, most won’t, I guess. There will definitely be some individual cases where there will be a loss of livelihood with nothing remotely comparable to replace it.

 

[west didsblue]

Is LBC a good barometer of the nations opinion writ large? Or just the metropolitan chattering classes? Not saying it’s wrong but I see it as a chat show that you’ll routinely listen to if you generally agree with the presenters, and those presenters discussing Brexit aren’t the from the leave side of the debate are they?

LBC has presenters from across the political spectrum including Brexiteers like Nick Ferrari and Boris Johnson’s sister. It’s not just O’Brien.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Fair point. Some will, most won’t, I guess. There will definitely be some individual cases where there will be a loss of livelihood with nothing remotely comparable to replace it.

The problem is that it's often genuinely difficult to separate the strands of brexit, Russia/ Ukraine, global recession, covid/post covid, and of course our useless govt. On top of that you have a 'get Brexit done' govt that willfully sweeps Brexit under the carpet of those other issues. I'm a little more optimistic than you in that I think we will edge back closer to Europe and end up in some sort of trade agreement sooner rather than later. It can be sold as a crisis measure in response to other economic difficulties, but for any party to outwardly campaign to rejoin while it's such a 'live' and divisive issue would be political suicide (imho).

 

[metalblue]

Fair point. Some will, most won’t, I guess. There will definitely be some individual cases where there will be a loss of livelihood with nothing remotely comparable to replace it.

Absolutely mate. You’ll even get swings in public opinion where people think the recession, gaps in produce on the supermarket shelves or cost of living crisis are exclusively down to Brexit but these swings will come and go. Where the EU had a great opportunity to assuage much of the negative feeling towards it wanting to be something more than a free market was it’s response to the Ukraine invasion - it tried really hard to be relevant but found itself wedged between two stools which probably only questioned further, in the minds of the sceptical, what the point of it is.

I have a lot if sympathy for it

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

LBC has presenters from across the political spectrum including Brexiteers like Nick Ferrari and Boris Johnson’s sister. It’s not just O’Brien.

I find Nick Ferrari a bit daily mail, and they could probably do with someone a bit rw between O'Brian/Fogarty. Marr is good although the crocodile tears for hrh were a bit much. Ian Dale is one of the few conservative types I enjoy, and sadly the late night stuff is nonsense.
Quite sad they lost maajid nawaz, as I loved the way he unravelled issues from a different angle - I think he got cancelled for questioning covid or the vaccine?

 

[Kippaxpete]

A criticism you can also hear being laid at the feet of Labour leadership being lately largely from Islington, white and male - not a dig at Labour just an observation in the same theme. If history shows Brexit was decided by a thumbing of the nose to the establishment I don’t think many would be too surprised.

Most of those who voted to leave would have no understanding of the term, 'Islington elite', so favoured by the hand-wringing journalists of the Guardian, let alone the idea of thumbing their noses at them to inform their decision. A significant majority bought the Brexit lie peddled by Johnson that a vote to leave would enable us to 'take control of our borders', coded language for keeping out 'undesirables' such as Romanians, Albanians and anyone with a brown face (much as I detest Farage, at least he was honest about his intentions). The second big lie was that the UK would 'regain it's sovereignty', the meaning of which no-one has been able to satisfactorily explain to me other than to trumpet the fact that my passport will now be a different colour. That's aside from the myth that Brexit would somehow rescue the NHS by magically freeing up £350m a week. Let's call a spade a spade. The leavers campaign was dog-whistle politics of the most cynical kind, intended to take advantage of the wilful ignorance of great swathes of this nation.

 

[west didsblue]

Absolutely mate. You’ll even get swings in public opinion where people think the recession, gaps in produce on the supermarket shelves or cost of living crisis are exclusively down to Brexit but these swings will come and go. Where the EU had a great opportunity to assuage much of the negative feeling towards it wanting to be something more than a free market was it’s response to the Ukraine invasion - it tried really hard to be relevant but found itself wedged between two stools which probably only questioned further, in the minds of the sceptical, what the point of it is.

I have a lot if sympathy for it

I think the response to the Ukraine invasion showed that it’s primarily an economic union because in spite of the right words being spoken by the commission, the individual attitudes of Germany, France, Italy, Hungary etc had a much bigger impact than the much more positive and supportive approach that the commission tried and failed to gain a concerted approach with a single voice. Ironically it demonstrated that Brexiteers fears over the EU controlling individual countries freedom to do their own thing was miles from reality, and when push came to shove each country acted in what they perceived to be their own national interest. The additional irony is that Brexiteers then blamed the EU for not being supportive enough when it was some individual countries choosing not to pull their weight.

 

[Kippaxpete]

I find Nick Ferrari a bit daily mail, and they could probably do with someone a bit rw between O'Brian/Fogarty. Marr is good although the crocodile tears for hrh were a bit much. Ian Dale is one of the few conservative types I enjoy, and sadly the late night stuff is nonsense.
Quite sad they lost maajid nawaz, as I loved the way he unravelled issues from a different angle - I think he got cancelled for questioning covid or the vaccine?

A bit? He's the fucking living embodiment of the Daily Hate.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Most of those who voted to leave would have no understanding of the term, 'Islington elite', so favoured by the hand-wringing journalists of the Guardian, let alone the idea of thumbing their noses at them to inform their decision. A significant majority bought the Brexit lie peddled by Johnson that a vote to leave would enable us to 'take control of our borders', coded language for keeping out 'undesirables' such as Romanians, Albanians and anyone with a brown face (much as I detest Farage, at least he was honest about his intentions). The second big lie was that the UK would 'regain it's sovereignty', the meaning of which no-one has been able to satisfactorily explain to me other than to trumpet the fact that my passport will now be a different colour. That's aside from the myth that Brexit would somehow rescue the NHS by magically freeing up £350m a week. Let's call a spade a spade. The leavers campaign was dog-whistle politics of the most cynical kind, intended to take advantage of the wilful ignorance of great swathes of this nation.

I think you underestimate how reviled middle class metropolitan types are in towns like Grimsby, Hartlepool and Mansfield. In places like Manchester it’s slightly different because there is much more social and professional integration. Whilst many people from towns like Grimsby, Hartlepool and Mansfield might not deploy the term ‘metropolitan elite’ much of their frustration and anger is/was directed at that target, as when their towns have been in terminal decline for decades, and whilst we were part of the EU, London got bloated and to a significant extent on Russian laundered money.

Easy to see why they felt/feel the way they do. It’s a bit like the Hunger Games.

I think the factors you pointed to are also valid, but sticking two fingers up was definitely a large motivation for many.

 

[Bill Walker]

I heard the head of the EU talking about seamless travel for Croatia now with them adopting the Euro.

Then I thought of the UK.