General Election June 8th

[GortonBlue62]

IMD 2015 Manchester is 1st most deprived out of 326 using the rank of average rank, 5th most deprived out of 326 using rank of average score (most commonly used as main rank)- therefore pretty bleak according government figures.

The City centre may be busy and expensive, but the population are not benefiting:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-indices-of-deprivation-2015

File 10 has the Local Authority summaries.

Blackpool is worse in the latter measure, followed by Knowsley, Hull, Liverpool then Manchester - previously it was mainly London boroughs at the top last decade, now it all top five are northern.

Obviously I don't know what I am talking about....

I agree with your final statement.

Your definition of deprived is perverse.

The evidence is all around you. We are living in one of the richest countries in the world. Opportunities abound. In this country people have a chance to get on and prosper. That's why so many people risk their lives travelling half way round the planet to try to be here. You can obfuscate till your blue in the face with this detail and that detail but you are doing it for narrow party political reasons. The big picture is that we are thriving.

Vote Conservative. Then get on with your life safe in the knowledge that their instincts are largely correct and they are the least likely to cock things up.

 

[mcfc1632]

Balls. The EU is on our doorstep making trade easy - it is also the route on the way to other countries so if we are outside the customs union we would be in a right mess and limited by our own transportation links. Trade with the far east is generally imports we pay for so that does nothing for our balance of payments (buying more Chinese tat is not going to help us). The US will do a deal with the EU before us leaving us in no better place and potentially worse. I'm not even going into pass-porting rights for our big financial firms which is our single biggest export. The argument that trade gets anything other than worse after brexit is completely flawed. Its rubbish.

I think that everyone is expecting difficult times ahead - it seems (at the moment and before the negotiations have started) that the EU's position is to play hardball and make things as tough as possible.

Now this might be a negotiating stance or it might be a position of zero change because they feel the need not to make any compromises for fear of incentivising others to leave - but either way, this is all stuff of pre-2016. A decision has been made and we need to move on from that debate and now to get on with negotiating the best outcomes we can and the stronger the negotiating team's mandate and position at the start the better.

We cannot force the EU to provide us with the TA that we want to on our best terms, but equally we need not just bend over and obey every instruction they give us and every demand they make - we can only secure what we can jointly agree.

It follows that we need to plan to secure TAs elsewhere and develop them to the maximum value. We just all need to move on IMO and act to make the best of it rather than waste time looking back at the pre-2016 debate..

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I think that everyone is expecting difficult times ahead - it seems (at the moment and before the negotiations have started) that the EU's position is to play hardball and make things as tough as possible.

Now this might be a negotiating stance or it might be a position of zero change because they feel the need not to make any compromises for fear of incentivising others to leave - but either way, this is all stuff of pre-2016. A decision has been made and we need to move on from that debate and now to get on with negotiating the best outcomes we can and the stronger the negotiating team's mandate and position at the start the better.

We cannot force the EU to provide us with the TA that we want to on our best terms, but equally we need not just bend over and obey every instruction they give us and every demand they make - we can only secure what we can jointly agree.

It follows that we need to plan to secure TAs elsewhere and develop them to the maximum value. We just all need to move on IMO and act to make the best of it rather than waste time looking back at the pre-2016 debate..

My issue here is that false statements and warped thinking were put forward before the vote and they continue to be put forward now. Your post is suggesting we must all accept these flawed arguments because there was a vote and 52% voted leave. I don't accept that.

The EU negotiation will be a rubbish deal as we have far more to lose. We were promised the moon on a stick, things we will never get (limits on movement of people but retaining access to markets) without huge concessions on our part and it is therefore inevitable that we will end up with a choice of a bad deal or an ultra hard brexit. Theresa May knows this hence the calling of an election forcing MPs to accept the path we are on. As we go through this process it will become increasingly clear that the best option was always to remain yet the hardline brexiteers will never accept it and the majority of MPs whose base opinion is to remain will have fought an election on a brexit ticket.

.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It’s an opinion but it is also logical and reasoned. There is nothing behind the argument that trade with the rest of the world will make up the loss that will arise post brexit.

MIFID II is one piece of financial regulation amongst many, the many are largely harmonised across the EU and if you are in the EU you can trade anywhere without barriers – once we are out we can be excluded from these markets, MIFID II or not, it is that simple. There is already legislation in the pipe to bring foreign banks trading in the EU under a central EU holding company – most of these banks are currently spread across major European Cities, give it 10 years post brexit and these firms will have massively shrunk there London operations in favor of cities within the EU.

Our only competitive option would be to become a regulatory and tax light alternative and that is a political discussion that the tories and brexit extremists want to keep quiet. Do we want to be a tax and regulatory haven for ill-gotten / corrupt money? Would that suit the likes of Aaron Banks (millionaire backer of UKIP) or Murdoch (Billionaire owner of the Sun etc)? The whole thing stinks!

You are making a massive assumption that trade with the EU will suddenly stop when we leave . it wont . in the same way as we and other countries in the EU trade with other nations outside the EU now happily.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You are making a massive assumption that trade with the EU will suddenly stop when we leave . it wont . in the same way as we and other countries in the EU trade with other nations outside the EU now happily.

It's not a massive assumption to assume that going from a zero barriers trading relationship to a system with taxes, tariffs and customs red tape will have a significant negative impact. I'm not saying it will stop it won't but even a 10% drop would be a huge blow for our economy. One of the reasons it is very hard to estimate the impact is there are no barriers to trade with the EU and therefore figures are only estimates. You can fill a van with stuff drive to france and sell it, nothing stops you and it is not recorded. Stick a trade tariff / import tax and customs in the way and it will inevitably impact trade. We wont know how bad this will be until it happens but it is a very safe assumption that it will have a significant negative impact.

 

[Len Rum]

Pretty much my stance -"most of the media is left leaning".

Oh dear.

 

[Damocles]

Oh dear.

You don't see this because you're a zealoted fool who has lost touch with reality. In reality, which is the place the rest of us choose to spend our days, almost the entire media is left leaning to lesser or greater degrees. It doesn't even make sense to argue otherwise based purely on demographics.

 

[cibaman]

It's not a massive assumption to assume that going from a zero barriers trading relationship to a system with taxes, tariffs and customs red tape will have a significant negative impact. I'm not saying it will stop it won't but even a 10% drop would be a huge blow for our economy. One of the reasons it is very hard to estimate the impact is there are no barriers to trade with the EU and therefore figures are only estimates. You can fill a van with stuff drive to france and sell it, nothing stops you and it is not recorded. Stick a trade tariff / import tax and customs in the way and it will inevitably impact trade. We wont know how bad this will be until it happens but it is a very safe assumption that it will have a significant negative impact.

I agree, but I still think that a Corbyn led Labour government would be worse.

 

[brass neck]

Why on earth would anyone vote tory. They are disgusting. Pro nuclear holocaust, pro killing the disabled, pro private NHS, pro tax breaks to the mega rich, pro secondary modern high schools....

The only reason average people vote for this mob is they have been hoodwinked into thinking their mock Tudor house and there Ford focus makes them one of them.

The Tories hate the disabled, hate the poor, hate the unemployed, hate the working poor, hate the homeless, hate the working class, hate the middle class, hate cancer sufferers, the only people Tories like are the filthy rich, the arms manufacturers, the bankers and the elite!

 

[Cheesy]

Why on earth would anyone vote tory. They are disgusting. Pro nuclear holocaust, pro killing the disabled, pro private NHS, pro tax breaks to the mega rich, pro secondary modern high schools....

The only reason average people vote for this mob is they have been hoodwinked into thinking their mock Tudor house and there Ford focus makes them one of them.

The Tories hate the disabled, hate the poor, hate the unemployed, hate the working poor, hate the homeless, hate the working class, hate the middle class, hate cancer sufferers, the only people Tories like are the filthy rich, the arms manufacturers, the bankers and the elite!

Fucking hell, what an unadulterated crock of shit.

I know what's coming next... crticism of my post because it didn't actually address any of that bollocks. But seriously, what would be the fucking point?