Biggest recession for 300 years

[Phil1]

I won’t ask him for art, either.

I call a plumber to fix a problem, not to hang on the wall!

Maybe my words were poorly phrased. I have no problem with the artists, only the council wankers who think spending £100,000 in tax money in art is worthwhile. In such instances, if they wanted art, I’m sure there were many, many artists who would have been willing to try some self promotion by donating works. Hell, they could have made a competition of it, just like a fucking reality show...you Brits love that shit, almost as much as most Americans hate having the star of one as president!

It’s not an unreasonable stance to say councils shouldn’t be spending tens of thousands on artwork. Especially when you hear them bemoaning the fact that their budgets are constantly being reduced.
I’d say it’s common sense.

 

[George Hannah]

Some tough times ahead seems likely. All us regular folk can do is strap in and deal with the ride as best we can. Sadly there's no such thing as real freedom as regular folk. There always seems to be a greedy suit or group of suits ready to impact our lives somehow.

There's nowt so queer as regular folk.....

 

[fulabeer]

Talk of a recession is normally the trigger for a recession. People lose confidence and the ever decreasing circle ends in a recession.
This time things are different. People have been restricted in movement activities and spending. This can lead a small but meaningful bounce back.
There will be a transition period due to job security doubts/loses. Plus the fact that the virus will be with us for some time.
At least in my circle of friends, all the talk is about booking holidays and what cars they will be buying. Quite a few are also looking at house improvements.

 

[BrianW]

This discussion has highlighted a fundamental problem. All human organisations are corrupt. Even the Church - which you would think would be composed of selfless, devout individuals who feared God's anger - has been shown to be corrupt time and again.

I once worked for a local authority I shall not name. My mate and I were convinced there was corruption in high places. All the big bosses (including ours, who generally took no shit from anyone) seemed to be scared to death of the Chief Executive, who behaved like Don Corleone. It was believed that he, and a group of Councillors from a particular area, decided much of the Council's business on the golf course, off the record.

My mate was once asked to do something that was literally against the law. He refused, despite heavy pressure being put on him. So they simply went round him, his boss did the deed.

But how would you prove any of this in a court of law? The truth is our suspicions were 97% just that - suspicions. Any half-decent QC could have torn our theories to shreds, and I have no doubt at all that the top tier of bosses would have denied everything.

If anyone tells me that the private sector is more moral, I shall piss my kecks laughing, as I know very well that it isn't. It's a damn sight worse. A lot of stuff that is "corruption" in the public sector is common practice in the private.

There is no solution. The best you can hope for is to keep the coruption within bounds.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

It’s not like the recession has been caused by a lack of money to create or buy produce though. It’s more of a pause than a decline, isn’t it? Production and sales could easily go back to normal once things go back to normal, can’t they?

Questions more than statements because I’m not entirely sure of the fixed meanings of these things.

Could cause a lot of fear this though which generally means people will think about saving rather than spending, particularly if their jobs are in doubt. The older generation, many of whom have solid incomes with no fear of loss of this income and quite often have substantial savings, could help by starting to spend or gift some of their capital to their families before the pass away rather than after. In my experience of working with this group though they tend not to do that and are not lavish spenders either.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Could cause a lot of fear this though which generally means people will think about saving rather than spending, particularly if their jobs are in doubt. The older generation, many of whom have solid incomes with no fear of loss of this income and quite often have substantial savings, could help by starting to spend or gift some of their capital to their families before the pass away rather than after. In my experience of working with this group though they tend not to do that and are not lavish spenders either.

I’ve got money in the bank from not spending the usual stuff on football, eating out etc. I’m still working but the wife is furloughed potentially going back mid May, I’m not going to spend anything for the foreseeable future. I’ve got money to tie us over if one of us ends up out of work for a few months. Times that by quite a few million households and I would imagine people are pretty scared to spend money right now.

 

[BrianW]

Fear of spending money is one cause of recession/depression. And it is rooted in fear, in lack of security. For the last 40 years the security of ordinary people has been undermined. The safety net that once existed has been largely destroyed, because of a philosophy that says we must be "encouraged" to work by fear of destitution. Home ownership is harder to achieve, and renting is inherently insecure. A large chunk of society is maybe 2-3 salary payments away from being out on the street. Because a very large proportion of us have less than £100 in savings.

One solution - and I do stress one solution, it is not a complete solution - is to make people economically secure again. Yes, some will then take the piss. But the overwhelming majority won't. We need, in short, to go back to the post 1945 settlement.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I’ve got money in the bank from not spending the usual stuff on football, eating out etc. I’m still working but the wife is furloughed potentially going back mid May, I’m not going to spend anything for the foreseeable future. I’ve got money to tie us over if one of us ends up out of work for a few months. Times that by quite a few million households and I would imagine people are pretty scared to spend money right now.

Absolutely this. Even if just 10% do it then it’s 10% less spending that before. There will be a surge in spending from where we are right now obviously as can’t spend at all hardly currently, but it won’t be at Jan 2020 levels for some time for me. Uncertainly will be all around Job wise.

A friend of mine who owns a business is saying staff will have to take a 6 month pay cut or there will be 2 of the 6 made redundant as soon as furlough ends, as she knows that it will take the business at least 6 months to get going again. It’s going to be a very tough year for business that relies on consumer demand.

Thise six are likely to agree to that and then they have less disposable income and have also been given a message that it things don’t pick up then there will still be redundancies so don’t spend in anticipation. That is one business. X that by 50,000 similar business and that could quite easily be a million people who have stopped spending.

 

[Tuearts right boot]

Absolutely this. Even if just 10% do it then it’s 10% less spending that before. There will be a surge in spending from where we are right now obviously as can’t spend at all hardly currently, but it won’t be at Jan 2020 levels for some time for me. Uncertainly will be all around Job wise.

A friend of mine who owns a business is saying staff will have to take a 6 month pay cut or there will be 2 of the 6 made redundant as soon as furlough ends, as she knows that it will take the business at least 6 months to get going again. It’s going to be a very tough year for business that relies on consumer demand.

Thise six are likely to agree to that and then they have less disposable income and have also been given a message that it things don’t pick up then there will still be redundancies so don’t spend in anticipation. That is one business. X that by 50,000 similar business and that could quite easily be a million people who have stopped spending.

My daughter has just agreed to a 5% pay cut...cant really see what difference that amount is going to make to a huge American conglomerate but she's probably saved that and a lot more besides by working from home and not spending...

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

Talk of a recession is normally the trigger for a recession. People lose confidence and the ever decreasing circle ends in a recession.
This time things are different. People have been restricted in movement activities and spending. This can lead a small but meaningful bounce back.
There will be a transition period due to job security doubts/loses. Plus the fact that the virus will be with us for some time.
At least in my circle of friends, all the talk is about booking holidays and what cars they will be buying. Quite a few are also looking at house improvements.

Yes and yes........

Price of holidays will be extortionate for the foreseeable future as the sector has been completely decimated k imagine (obviously some places will present themselves as a bargain)but i imagine the clamour to get out of the country will be huge.

Was looking to extend the house before Corona and the only thing that may stop that is if I can purchase a bargain second property due to the circumstances (doubt it but hopeful).......