champions league performances - tactically unsophisticated

supercity88 said:
What a load of bollocks. The English league is tough and the number of games, with cup competitions makes it very hard to succeed domestically and in Europe. Generally a club suffers in one or both. No winter break doesn't help either. The other European sides are rested and come back for the CL knockouts fresh, we go into them after a heavy run of fixtures and the third round of the FA Cup. And then League Cup semi's are played as well... Juve generally can coast domestically and prioritise Europe. So can Spanish teams. It's so much easier for them and then they can keep up their performance levels.

The prem has weakened in quality slightly and become more competitive but I do not believe we're tactically weaker than anywhere else.
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it's not bollocks at all, English teams have always looked tactically inferior.
 
I feel the exact same way, it is quite bizarre how exposed English teams are in Europe quite frequently, both Europa and CL.

We have some of the best players in the world playing in the Premier league, we have some and have had plenty of top managers and players before them also yet we continually look under prepared in nearly every game.
 
city saint said:
why though with continental managers and players,surely they don't suddenly forget everything when they move to england
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nope, i doubt they forget everything but the style in which the premier league is played, which is undeniably different to Italy for example, demands that these european players play in an 'english way' every week and so to simply adjust out of that for the odd european game is not really possible. they are habituated to the PL way.
 
"In Europe, being fast, being strong, playing only with your quality, you are going to struggle against teams that prepare."

This has always been the case with City in Europe, and it is apparent also in the PL. Unless we have a back four on the top of their game and communicating well we are prone to finding that quite ordinary teams have the answer to possession football and can frustrate for long periods. They only need a defensive cock up or a ref ready to point to the spot for a soft 'un and the game's gone.

It's something that most City fans acknowledge. I've said it before on this forum that I think Pellers relies more on the quality in the team than on finding out the Achilles heel of the opposition. I bet Sevilla have watched every game since we played them last!
 
shemnel said:
it's not bollocks at all, English teams have always looked tactically inferior.
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It is bollocks. Arsenal beat Bayern last week. Were they tactically inferior? Was that just luck? Do better players have any impact on results? What about fatigue? Injuries? Pellegrini has masterminded much worse sides than ours far in the competition. He happened to get knocked out by Arsenal I recall... was he tactically outclassed? Chelsea won it by sitting deep and playing on the counter, are you telling me that's tactical sophistication?


We didn't take our chances against Juve. It's actually the game we deserved to win most so far this season in the CL. If their tactical masterplan was to let us have most of the ball and create a lot of chances then they 100% pulled it off. They took their chances and played on the counter. But that's the way most teams will have to play against us because we are better than most in possession. It's how West Ham beat us, it's how Norwich tried to beat us. It's how we would try and beat Bayern and Barca. That's not tactical sophistication. It's recognising your strengths and weaknesses and playing accordingly. We play a more expansive game at home and we generally try to keep things tighter away from home.

In Pellegrini and Wenger what you do have is two managers that like to play attacking football and like to win games. We've shown a bit more nous this season. We've made defensive changes and closed games out. Depsite Evra's comments about English football being a boxing match with the fittest fighter winning, we've won two CL games late on - is that because of our fitness?! Arsenal were foolish against Olympiakos - they should have seen out that game and won it. But I don't believe there's a huge gulf in tactical awareness.

Juve's style means they're never going to be out of sight. They can defend well for 90mins and maybe score the odd goal but a good spell from the opposition and they're right back in it. If we played a two legged tie against them at some stage we'd take our chances. Sitting back and defending and playing on the counter doesn't always get you the result. More often than not you have a lapse in concentration and concede. There have been very few sides that have won the CL playing that way. Inter and Chelsea the two I can recall. More often than not, it's the team that plays good attacking football that wins.
 
Here's a list of the last 11 CL finals (winners written first)

Barca - Juve
Real - Atletico
Bayern - Dortmund
Chelsea - Bayern
Barca - Rags
Inter - Bayern
Barca - Rags
Rags - Chelsea
Milan - Liverpool
Barca - Arsenal
Liverpool - Milan

Plenty of English clubs in and around there. We don't give a shit about the Europa. That's not tactics. It's largely players being rested and a lack of commitment to winning it. The league takes priority. That's different on the continent where they take European competitions very seriously. Winning the CL is so big, most Real/Barca fans would probably prefer to win it over La Liga if they couldn't win both. Again, in England we'd rather win the league. There haven't been many English sides to win the league and CL in the same season... the tough season makes it very hard. It's not tactics at all or we wouldn't see so much success from English teams in the competition.

The reason things aren't so good recently is because of the quality. We've always had the ability to implode and we've struggled for form in Europe. We've still beaten Bayern and Roma last season when we had to. The Roma win was a great tactical win in my opinion. The quality of English sides isn't amazing. You can pick weaknesses in most. Arsenal lack a start centre forward and central defensive reinforcements. The rags lack goals, but tactically they're hard to beat at the moment. Chelsea look very good on paper but god knows what's going on there. The media are making a bigger issue out of tactics than there is. The quality is slightly lacking but I don't think we're far off being a very good side in Europe. This season we're showing an ability to grind out results and a bit more defensive nous when required.
 
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