Covid 19: Sino global relations

[AlgarveBlu]

Coronavirus is becoming a public relations disaster for China

Ok just on the back of some comments from Ric and others on the main thread I thought it would be better to start a separate thread on this issue as it has been suggested by some that it has derailed the main thread.

have used the word Sino as some people are suggesting that there may be some racist undertones knocking around which I am sure is true in some quarters from the top to bottom, but personally don’t give a shit what title is called so feel free to change.

Anyhow, interesting piece following on from many of the discussions on the main thread from Forbes Business which covers general sentiment toward China and how this may change future relationships.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/03/30/the-coronavirus-is-becoming-a-public-relations-disaster-for-china/#108f69e943f2

 

[Ban-jani]

The Chinese Government are involved in one of the most disgraceful cover ups in history, that has and will affect millions worldwide.

Whatever happens, this shouldn’t be forgotten and we sure as hell shouldn’t be using their 5G network.

 

[BobKowalski]

Good thread. On the causes of this epidemic the Chinese Govt needs to get its house in order. It’s incentive to do so is that the effect on itself, its people and its economy was as bad there as it will be elsewhere. On its handling of the epidemic it was slow to recognise the problem and in denial until it no longer could be. That is a trait of Govt no matter its politics. The same happened in the US and here.

Sending duff equipment ie testing equipment to Spain, Netherlands annoys the hell out of me. That smacks of a PR move with no thought or consequence for solving the actual problem. That deserves contempt.

Going forward the problem the West has with China is a simple one. It’s too big to ignore. Western companies want in on their domestic market. It’s the manufacturing base for a lot of Western economies. It makes a lot of medical components and medicines themselves and makes them affordable. Its one of the big three trade blocs. Talk of a reckoning etc won’t solve anything. Hostility will just make them hostile. Blame them for everything and they will paint a picture to their citizens that the US/west is to blame. Other Asian countries who have China as a close neighbour have no illusions about China and treats China as it is and not how they wish China to be. We should do the same.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Good thread. On the causes of this epidemic the Chinese Govt needs to get its house in order. It’s incentive to do so is that the effect on itself, its people and its economy was as bad there as it will be elsewhere. On its handling of the epidemic it was slow to recognise the problem and in denial until it no longer could be. That is a trait of Govt no matter its politics. The same happened in the US and here.

Sending duff equipment ie testing equipment to Spain, Netherlands annoys the hell out of me. That smacks of a PR move with no thought or consequence for solving the actual problem. That deserves contempt.

Going forward the problem the West has with China is a simple one. It’s too big to ignore. Western companies want in on their domestic market. It’s the manufacturing base for a lot of Western economies. It makes a lot of medical components and medicines themselves and makes them affordable. Its one of the big three trade blocs. Talk of a reckoning etc won’t solve anything. Hostility will just make them hostile. Blame them for everything and they will paint a picture to their citizens that the US/west is to blame. Other Asian countries who have China as a close neighbour have no illusions about China and treats China as it is and not how they wish China to be. We should do the same.

Do you see any way that effective and independent monitoring capabilities for future zoonotic viruses on the ground there can be agreed and accepted by China? This surely has to be a priority looking forward in any future discussions.

I accept the premise of your economic points and I am sure some individuals will make there own stand against buying Chinese products for a while (freedom fries comes to mind after 9/11 against the French) but I have stated before, although I lay the blame for the spread of the outbreak with the CCP; I believe it would be folly at this stage to not try and work with them on the science for our mutual benefit as I am sure they have a significantly larger sample base of data from hospitalisations and deaths that they obviously want to hide which could contain some vital patterns and findings they have made.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

The Chinese Government are involved in one of the most disgraceful cover ups in history, that has and will affect millions worldwide.

Whatever happens, this shouldn’t be forgotten and we sure as hell shouldn’t be using their 5G network.

They have form from 2003 - copy and paste - it was only after huge international pressure did they finally come clean that the numbers in all areas were about 10 times higher. I don't understand why people are ignoring this significant fact, it's not as if this can be spun whereas there is more scope for ambiguity with the current time lines.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/china.sars

They are adept at misdirection but they have the added problem of social media to deal with now, which has exposed their actions and narrative throughout this episode and that's even with their heavy censorship policy.

 

[BobKowalski]

Do you see any way that effective and independent monitoring capabilities for future zoonotic viruses on the ground there can be agreed and accepted by China? This surely has to be a priority looking forward in any future discussions.

I accept the premise of your economic points and I am sure some individuals will make there own stand against buying Chinese products for a while (freedom fries comes to mind after 9/11 against the French) but I have stated before, although I lay the blame for the spread of the outbreak with the CCP; I believe it would be folly at this stage to not try and work with them on the science for our mutual benefit as I am sure they have a significantly larger sample base of data from hospitalisations and deaths that they obviously want to hide which could contain some vital patterns and findings they have made.

I think China will find it difficult to accept independent monitoring as this will imply fault and failure on their part - which to be honest is true - and the more we ramp up the blame game (‘Chinese virus’ etc) the less likely we are to get some accord on finding a way forward that protects all of us. But if we approach it pragmatically and work with them in establishing an effective Chinese driven monitoring capability that can at least have some independent verification it will be a start.

As you say it would be folly to alienate them. This is an international problem and it’s going to take a collaborative effort including the Chinese to overcome it and more importantly stop it happening again.

 

[Ban-jani]

They have form from 2003 - copy and paste - it was only after huge international pressure did they finally come clean that the numbers in all areas were about 10 times higher. I don't understand why people are ignoring this significant fact, it's not as if this can be spun whereas there is more scope for ambiguity with the current time lines.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/china.sars

They are adept at misdirection but they have the added problem of social media to deal with now, which has exposed their actions and narrative throughout this episode and that's even with their heavy censorship policy.

Just look at the main thread “nothing to see here” is even being put across by posters in the UK.

They certainly do have form and they will continue to behave like this unless there is an international response.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I'm not comfortable with the blame China narrative. I have a strong suspicion it comes from the same right wing social media sorces that promote Trump and similar brands of populist BS.

There seems to be a couple of criticisms:

1, they didn't warn others soon enough - clearly not valid as western countries did nothing for weeks anyway.
2, the numbers are not accurate - Same everywhere.
3, they are sending out dodgy equipment - China has made itself by producing vast quantities of often low quality goods, western companies have made $bns out of importing it and selling it. The quality issue has always been there - they are a low standards economy. What do you expect.

Beyond the above I don't see what they have done to deserve criticism.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I'm not comfortable with the blame China narrative. I have a strong suspicion it comes from the same right wing social media sorces that promote Trump and similar brands of populist BS.

There seems to be a couple of criticisms:

1, they didn't warn others soon enough - clearly not valid as western countries did nothing for weeks anyway.
2, the numbers are not accurate - Same everywhere.
3, they are sending out dodgy equipment - China has made itself by producing vast quantities of often low quality goods, western companies have made $bns out of importing it and selling it. The quality issue has always been there - they are a low standards economy. What do you expect.

Beyond the above I don't see what they have done to deserve criticism.

It's difficult to have any thread on this as everything comes back to looking to blame them, personally wanting to just blame China in itself is a futile exercise at this stage because we are we are and we have to accept people will look for something to blame when they don't like the situation they are in; I'm more concerned about how they are effecting the situation now and what we can do in future to stop this happening again.

1. I think it's harsh for any governments to make an informed decision based upon what can at its kindest be said to be confusing information on mode of transmission and transmission rates etc. If the real number of infections/hospitalisations/deaths had been revealed a lot sooner then I suspect different calls would have been made. I don't dispute for one second that the majority of government reactions has been slow, however at least we can have public enquiries after and I bet you your bottom dollar that the CCP will have no such meaningful enquiry into their actions.

2. Not sure what you mean? We are not talking about missing out a few residents In a city here or there, there is strong suspicions from various bodies that the numbers are significanty higher which would be consistent with it being ground zero.

3. Personally not an issue for me, have stated before I very much doubt that there was any malice in this. I don't however like their duplicity with respect to calling out other nations for taking out racist actions by banning flights from China a month ago* and then announcing there own travel bans a month later due to imported cases another slight of hand their for their controlled local media outlets to gobble up.

* I fully accept that Trump and Fox etc approach is a liability in this as he, Xi and Bolsonaro are the biggest liabilities one way or another out there on the global fight against this

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Virtually all the recent killer viruses have emanated from China, this recent scourge is causing economic shock that will be felt worldwide for some time to come. I would imagine many governments may be preparing a response, we'll see. It has certainly put that state's obnoxious government in the spotlight, and with any luck, the disgusting practices that caused the outbreak, may be curtailed, if nothing else.