Donald Trump wins U.S. Election.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RichardDunneOwnGoal, 9 Nov 2016.

  1. Damocles

    Damocles

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2009
    Bollocks.

    Their evidence is ridiculous. This is the first real time I've seen a Government agency use the fact that people are ill educated on something to publicly manufacture a narrative and it's both frightening and validating. They've done it before of course on numerous occasions but I've never seen it happen right in front of me before.

    For the record, the FBI haven't said this. What actually happened is that one guy said "he believes" Russia "might" have done this "through some sort of cut out". But that's not what anybody will take away from this.

    I don't know what's going on here fully but somebody is getting setup and fucked
     
  2. @BluePhil8

    @BluePhil8

    Joined:
    4 Jan 2009
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, and the FBI aren't going to come out and say 'the UK bugged Trump' either.
     
  3. west didsblue

    west didsblue

    Joined:
    2 Oct 2011
    Correct and there's a simple reason for that.
     
  4. karen7

    karen7

    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    What motive would they have to mislead anyone ?
     
  5. Damocles

    Damocles

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2009
    You're asking what would the US intelligence agencies, the primary people hurt by the freedom of information and specifically the people who least want others to be inspired by the values of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden, would have against the only people willing to publish the information that exposes their criminality?

    Because they have one overt enemy and if they can kill them and their credibility then they can continue to commit crimes with no oversight or recourse.
     
  6. karen7

    karen7

    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    I ask as i don't have the sort of knowledge you do,however i find it difficult to see the FBI ,NSA and the justice dept all lying
     
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2017
  7. Tanzeylee

    Tanzeylee

    Joined:
    25 Feb 2014

    Self preservation
     
  8. Cheadle_hulmeBlue

    Cheadle_hulmeBlue

    Joined:
    27 Oct 2012
    unless I'm wrong, i don't think they said there was definitely no wire tappings, just that they believed there wasn't. i think something is going on though with the amount of intelligence/info being leaked out of the whitehouse at the minute.

    there seems to be less evidence of this. just that they believe it. but tbh the irony of it, america influence and hack countries all the time
     
  9. karen7

    karen7

    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    They said there was nothing to support trumps tweets that he was wire tapped at all let alone by obama
     
  10. Damocles

    Damocles

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2009
    They've already lied about their capabilities and broke the law about warrantless spying. The question of honesty isn't really a question with them any more and hasn't been for at least 10 years in my knowledge with the CIA going further back.

    Do you want to know an interesting story that has the security underground really pissed off? There's this anonymising program that is designed either for privacy uses or to get around national firewalls. It's how a lot of people in Syria, Saudi and the like are contacting journalists in the West. Due to this anonymising effect however, it's also a major distribution channel for child pornographers.

    Recently the FBI caught a whole swathe of these paedophiles who were charging for access to a forum based on this service, then attempting to get others to film themselves raping kids as some sort of initiation or something. The FBI got them - they got them all and had them banged to rights in an international criminal case spanning the whole globe. However when it came to court cases they were asked exactly how it was that they caught these people - perfectly reasonable request in order to establish guilt. The FBI after much haranguing admitted they'd basically ran and distributed child porn for a couple of weeks in order to catch them. Morally suspect and quite probably illegal but in a twisted way you can see the logic in it even if like me you vehemently disagree with it. Then they were asked how they tracked each person through the anonymous service to establish it as this person's house or whatever it was coming from.

    They refused to tell. In fact they allowed a massive international gang of predatory paedophiles to walk away because they point blank refused to say how they managed this. We later found out that they did this by breaking the law even further and going after people without warrants which then collapsed all of the cases. They didn't want to tell people this because then people might start asking questions about other intelligence gathering methods they used in other cases. So now what they've done is break the law in distributing kids getting raped, break the law in warrantless tapping, then hid all of this information so now a legion of the vilest people put on Earth can now not only work out how to secure themselves next time around but make everybody else harder to catch. Because they didn't want to give up a zero day to a judge to get a warrant. They thought judicial principles didn't apply to them.

    That's how much these people give a shit about law enforcement. And that's just the FBI and the Justice Department. The Snowden leaks, which by the way quite literally everybody has forgotten what they say, showed that the NSA is an illegal organisation acting WAY outside the boundaries of the law.

    The whole intelligence community is corrupt and believe themselves to be above the law. Not just in the US but every Five Eyes nation at the very least. Snowden, Manning and Wikileaks are the only people doing something about it. All of them are being cast as traitors and corrupt officials by the people they're exposing. I find that suspicious. When I see the evidence being used I find it hilarious. We have our own problems with GCHQ which for the record the IP Bill attempted to reign in, and funnily enough it was cast by the popular media as "the Snoopers Charter" and an affront to democracy and privacy (which it wasn't). Every time somebody attempts to reign in these people, whether that be parties like Wikileaks or even Governments themselves, they get slaughtered through the popular press and cast as villains. Again, I find that somewhat suspicious having read the security services documents about influencing people through the media and social media.

    And lets be absolutely clear here - the US Government has been trying to close Wikileaks for as long as Wikileaks existed and have threatened companies who are based in the US into complying with their attempted censorship.

    I'll also finally point out one last thing. There's a way of looking digitally into the authenticity of documents sent by email. Wikileaks has released hundreds of thousands of documents across many years across all of their projects. Not a single one was found to be fabricated. Every single one was cryptographically signed as legitimate when it has been checked. In fact security researchers had a fit over a fact checking site giving out misleading information about it and showed how anybody including you can check the legitimacy through cryptography.

    I don't trust these intelligence people as far as I can throw them and the hacker community learnt that way back in 1996. And quite frankly this all boils down to the fact that their evidence is shit, it doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't square with how hacker groups work. They can't even link Guccifer 2.0 to Russia, LET ALONE Guccifer 2.0 to the DNC hacks then to Wikileaks. Guccifer 2.0 himself has claimed the hack, explained how he did it, then explained that he left the Russian watermarks to piss people off. He also left Spanish watermarks and nobody caught it.

    This whole situation seems fishy to me. The evidence doesn't make sense. Yet another company or people who tries to reign in criminal intelligence agencies is getting demonised in the press.
     
    Last edited: 20 Mar 2017

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