England v Belgium | Friendly | Match Thread

hilts said:
So player A

Has great game comes off and thanks you for saying he played well

Player B

Has great game comes off and says i know I was good I'm always good.

You say I like the arrogance that player A will never make it he just not twattish enough.

Horse shit. Coaches would like to fuck off player B but they would end up playing well elsewhere.

We could throw in confidence which I feel we woukd be more likely to agree on. Arrogance and confidence are close bedfellows but there is a difference.
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Why are you assuming the arrogant player would act like Player B and not Player A?

Are we using the common definition of arrogance? Maybe I am misunderstanding what some people are meaning by a player being “arrogant”?

Edit: this is the definition I am using, which is separate from selfishness, dickishness, or lack of commitment.

1. : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Talent and hard work are absolutely important, we agree on that.

But to get the attention, which gives you the coaching and promotion needed to progress to the next development stage, most kids that aren’t children of ex-footballers or managers, need what people on here call arrogance to make it through the brutal gauntlet. It’s a filtering effect that happens at every stage, up to U18, then the other qualities tend to start becoming dominant.

By then, though, most of the players have the natural arrogance, and keep it to stay at the top.

David Silva, Kev, Kompany, Haaland, Stones, even selfless stalwart Gareth Barry had it. They might be humble off the pitch, but they are arrogant as footballers, because they had/have to be.
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My experience was that certain schools, club teams and coaches have considerable advantages when it comes to the England schoolboys set-up, which is where you get into the system.

It is such a clique, it’s easy to see how English coaches who have done very little elsewhere can get their feet under the table. Once inside the tent, you just have to say and do the right thing for the Old Boys Network and you have a job for life.

The entire England set up seems SO risk averse and everyone in power seems to be looking for the Steady Eddie who minds his P’s and Q’s, and has “inside” references…at least it was when I was involved.

I remember some Liverpool prospect swanning into Lilleshall a couple of days after everyone else and the whole coaching staff sucking his dick on the sidelines while we were playing a squad game. Everyone playing was “Who the fuck is that?” because no-one knew him, but it was clear he was already an insider. There was also clearly a southern bias to the numbers of players from there versus up north.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
My experience was that certain schools, club teams and coaches have considerable advantages when it comes to the England schoolboys set-up, which is where you get into the system.

It is such a clique, it’s easy to see how English coaches who have done very little elsewhere can get their feet under the table. Once inside the tent, you just have to say and do the right thing for the Old Boys Network and you have a job for life.

The entire England set up seems SO risk averse and everyone in power seems to be looking for the Steady Eddie who minds his P’s and Q’s, and has “inside” references…at least it was when I was involved.

I remember some Liverpool prospect swanning into Lilleshall a couple of days after everyone else and the whole coaching staff sucking his dick on the sidelines while we were playing a squad game. Everyone playing was “Who the fuck is that?” because no-one knew him, but it was clear he was already an insider. There was also clearly a southern bias to the numbers of players from there versus up north.
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It was my experience, as well.

I have probably taken up too much of this thread defending my assertion about Rodri and other world class footballers like him, so I won’t share my stories from my academy days (both in England and Spain).

But I have some juicy ones. The kids of ex-footballers were almost always the biggest cunts, I will say that. But most of us by the time we hit U14 were pretty arrogant. And we definitely had to stay that way, because the amount of negative feedback you get (and the setbacks you can experience) can be soul crushing without it.

Seems sort of hilarious to think about now, given my current state.
 
SebastianBlue said:
It was my experience, as well.

I have probably taken up too much of this thread defending my assertion about Rodri and other world class footballers like him, so I won’t share my stories from my academy days (both in England and Spain).

But I have some juicy ones. The kids of ex-footballers were almost always the biggest cunts, I will say that. But most of us by the time we hit U14 were pretty arrogant. And we definitely had to stay that way, because the amount of negative feedback you get (and the setbacks you can experience) can be soul crushing without it.

Seems sort of hilarious to think about now, given my current state.
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As the kid of an ex-footballer, I hope I was the exception that proves the rule. I can only imagine Steve Kinsey’s Dad was an ex-player, based on his attitude when I was at City with him. (I expect someone will now tell me what a great guy he is!) :-)

P.S. Rodri is world class humble, on and off the field. My current favorite City player.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
As the kid of an ex-footballer, I hope I was the exception that proves the rule. I can only imagine Steve Kinsey’s Dad was an ex-player, based on his attitude when I was at City with him. (I expect someone will now tell me what a great guy he is!) :-)

P.S. Rodri is world class humble, on and off the field. My current favorite City player.
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Haha, I am sure you were among the few decent lads from the ex-footballer gene pool.

And Rodri is just so damn intelligent and suave he can hide the fiery arrogance (like most Spaniards). ;-)
 
SebastianBlue said:
Arrogance is completely separate from commitment and effort (or selflessness), which I agree are all qualities that are absolutely necessary to become successful in a team sport.

You can be arrogant and have all of those other attributes, as well.

And, in fact, most “successful” people across vocations would be classified by most as arrogant, so I am not sure where you are getting this “arrogant people don’t become successful” thing from.

Arrogance is heavily tied to perseverance, though, especially when it comes to brutal development tracks like becoming a professional footballer (which 99% of people that attempt it wash out of).

Most footballers simply have to have a very healthy (bordering on exaggerated) since of self worth and importance to make it through the gauntlet.

And the ones that don’t need that are usually the children of ex-footballers that get advantages that players from non-football pedigrees do not, hence why they are able to make it through.
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Disagree mate. It's confidence not arrogance. They back themselves to be the best because they are when it comes to elite football. No point going out there if you don't believe in yourself. I don't think any of them strut around thinking they are better than they are. Most elite footballers would state the likes of De Bruyne as the best midfielder rather than blowing their own trumpet. But you don't see De Bruyne talking about how it's a piece of piss passing the ball the way he does. He is humble about it. Haaland similarly doesn't go around saying he will smash the goal scoring records and destroy everyone. He knows he can improve and misses chances and is humble. But both know they're fucking good because, well, they are.
 
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