Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

[Robanompivenov]

I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.

Brilliant post.

 

[SambrookMCFC]

This was a horrible act of violence, which I'm sure no single religion would advocate.

I personally have been impacted by this as my wife and 12 year old daughter were there, they were in the line to walk out the exit near to the where the bomb went off and that would have been their route out. We are extremely thankful that they got home safely but the impact this has had on our family is there. My daughter has barely spoken or eaten for 2 days, my wife is in constant tears. This will take time for us to heal from this and we have to keep reminding ourselves how lucky we have been. The images and sounds which have been imprinted on both will remain with them for a long time.

We are truly heartbroken by the experience but totally fail to comprehend what the people who have lost loved ones are currently feeling.

The question is always Why? these fuckers have death too easy. Don't even think these are religious fanatics. I have Muslim friends and they all condemn the behaviour of these.

I just hope the Governments of the world could do something different, but nobody knows what.

All I can say is - I love my family to bits but I also take them for granted. These last few days has reinforced my feelings and the extra hug or kiss doesn't hurt nobody.

Your Wife & Daughter along with the thousands of other innocent people are in my thoughts and should be at the forefront of everyone's minds and not this loser or any other loser that associates with these scum.

I hope your wife and especially daughter move on positively from there experiences and prosper in our beautiful city.

 

[domalino]

Sky news just saying they think special forces were involved not confirmed

Involved in what?

 

[SilverFox2]

If you believe the reports, the black ISIS flag flying in his garden should've been a big clue.

I remember the days in NI where complete villages and small towns either were forced or chose to fly black flags. Many obviously had the Irish Republican flag as well but the black flag signified a different level of allegiance.

 

[blueinsa]

Involved in what?

Raid on Granby Row in town mate.

They where also involved in the raids yesterday but you would never know.

 

[Blue warrior]

Involved in what?

The raid in town

 

[Gelsons Dad]

I think this offshoot discussions can be posted in a separate thread, like the one made recently.

I would request the mods on having this thread solely on the topic and the development of it such as the raids and intel.

Why? Because it offends your religious beliefs?
It's history. And it was a post to rebalance the idea that Christianity's past is an excuse for Islam's present.

 

[Damocles]

Looks like Dam is having a difficult day, Monday night has come as a blow to his mindset, he MIGHT be coming to slowly realise that people of the 99.99% faith want to massacre us without thought or pity, mind it will be a passing phase and come anytime soon he will be back to normal, ie, deluded

Yeah maybe. Or maybe I'm just not scared of brown people or people who chant Arabic enough to throw a thousand years of hard fought liberties away for them.

What a waste of a wheelchair.

Seriously though, I'm interested to hear your views. You obviously don't agree with my views of locking known extremists up, it is far fetched and it won't happen, I know that. But am I wrong to want that? If someone is known to the intelligence services and are making frequent trips to these war torn countries, should they be allowed to walk our streets? They ain't going there to sit on a beach for a week and drink bottles of San Miguel.

That's the point, there's more complexity to that than this.

An aid worker who is visiting Syria ten times a month has a great reason to go there, are you locking them up? Obviously not. They're there to help.

What about a person who has family over there and wants to visit their parents, are you locking them up? Probably not. It's not their fault their Mum can't get a visa here.

So what threat level do you have to reach to be locked up? Unfortunately the answer to this is, very rarely, the type of threat level that the intelligence services won't get to. Let's be realistic here - as much as it hurts to hear today the UK intelligence agencies are doing a phenomenal job against Islamic terrorism in the UK. We'd had 2 major planned attacks and several one off incidents in almost TWENTY YEARS of fighting radical Islam. That's an incredible record considering the threats abroad and within, and as sad as we feel today we shouldn't throw away years of steady defence from the barbarians at the gates because one found an open window.

Bring this out of philosophy and into reality. What specifically should the law say? you can't lock people up based on whims, this isn't how our society works.

The amount of people known to the intelligence services is in the tens of thousands if not hundreds. I'm pretty sure I'M known to the intelligence services due to a background in computer security penetration many years ago. Keeping track of everybody's movements constantly is not only illegal it's logistically impossible.

 

[cucumberman]

Why? Because it offends your religious beliefs?
It's history. And it was a post to rebalance the idea that Christianity's past is an excuse for Islam's present.

It doesn't offend me at all. Because it detracts from the thread. There is a separate thread that is more appropriate talking about religion.

I don't see the point of arguing about the history of religion in a thread about a developing story on this tragedy. Of missing people, raiding accomplices, new evidence. These are more important, than the intangible topic that has been argued to death in several previous threads.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think the forum needs a "post Manchester attack discussion" thread now, to be honest.

Although i'd hate to be the one having to moderate it...