It's quiet... summer 2018.

[ak93city]

Genuine question, did you even watch Heynckes Bayern Munich side in 2012/13?

I only ask because anyone that did watch them knows the idea he turned them into a counter-attacking team at any point in the season is a myth.

He won the CL final with 60% possession. He won the 1/4 final against Juventus with 55% in each leg, they beat Arsenal with near 60% in the second leg. So there was only 1 round where they weren't dominating possession - the set of games against Barca.

Even in the famous Barcelona game though, if you look at the average position of the Bayern Munich players (they are the team on the left) you can see they had an incredibly high line, higher than the Barca line in fact and pretty similar to where we play our defensive line. That's not a counterattacking set up, which would be a very deep line, usually with 1 forward much higher up than the rest to work as an outlet.

Barcelona dominated possession because that's what Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets did back then, without fail. That doesn't mean that Bayern changed their entire style of football to become a team which sat back, absorbed pressure and counterattacked, which seems to be what you think happened.

Instead what Heynckes actually did was make the team really shallow so the defence and attack were closer together and flood the midfield, which incredibly ironically given how you think the 2 games exemplify the differences between the coaches, is exactly what Pep tried at Anfield.

The result of having all those players so close is that Barca found it hard to play through midfield with all those bodies, and when they did lose the ball, Bayern had a lot of numbers to break.

Wasn't talking about 12/13.

 

[ak93city]

And Madrid have completely changed their style of play and recruitment, using technical mids instead of ball-winners and defending by possession. Won 2 CLs in a row as a result. Spain and Germany won 2 World Cups playing Cruyffian football. But yeah, some still think that defending in a low block and playing on counters is more 'pragmatic' than clever pressing combined with possession.

I think you're struggling to grasp the nuance in my argument, so I'll try to make it more explicit.

I would like Pep to win in his way. I agree it's possible to win this way. I DON'T think we have the players to win it that way right now in later stages of Europe or vs certain teams.

Hence, it's on the manager who manages this team to adapt till he has the players to play the Cryuff way against everybody, both domestically and internationally. This isn't some unreasonable argument. This is management 101 in ANY field of life. You do what you can with what you have to get the results. His way of football was more than enough to beat most teams in England. Now, If he doesn't have the level of players (skill or mentality wise) to win his way against certain teams like Liverpool, then stop asking these players to do more than what they're capable of and making it even harder for them.

Hence my initial argument of why we should target established world class players who have both the skill as well as mentality to implement his ways to win us big games in Europe, over recruiting yet more young potential filled players who don't have the mentality or skill level required right now in this moment.

Do you now think this is a simple and reasonable argument?

 

[ak93city]

I believe the squad needs to be challenged again and a big household name introduced to give everyone a further boost for next season.

Hazard and Lewandowski would be lovely.

Probably going to be Bailey and Weigl.

Maybe Bale (underwhelmed)

Precisely. If for instance mentality is what this team lacks, them we have to go for players who have it, and those are usually established names who've been at the top for a good while, not raw products just breaking into the scene.

 

[domalino]

Precisely. If for instance mentality is what this team lacks, them we have to go for players who have it, and those are usually established names who've been at the top for a good while, not raw products just breaking into the scene.

Bringing in Hazard to fix menatlity? haha, you can't be serious?

The guy who doesn't care about winning things, just wants to enjoy his football, who's been criticised by his managers for lacking a killer mentality and who, in 6 years has only shown up for 3 or 4 big games?

 

[Sir Joe Aguero]

I don't think amount is going to be an issue. We're only likely to buy 2 or 3 new players so we shouldn't need to be getting near our limits.

We need to make sure we go for quality and not another 12/13 window. We need to start to plan to replace the Silva/Aguero/Kompany/Fernandinho core. I still think they've all got at least 1 more season in them, but these are all world class players and if we don't sign adequate replacements, we'll suffer. Silva/Fernandinho will be the hardest.

I'm thinking Icardi, Isco, Fabinho & Skriniar. Another 200mil, but that team is set up for the next 5/6 years.

 

[domalino]

We need to make sure we go for quality and not another 12/13 window. We need to start to plan to replace the Silva/Aguero/Kompany/Fernandinho core. I still think they've all got at least 1 more season in them, but these are all world class players and if we don't sign adequate replacements, we'll suffer. Silva/Fernandinho will be the hardest.

I'm thinking Icardi, Isco, Fabinho & Skriniar. Another 200mil, but that team is set up for the next 5/6 years.

Icardi is about as far removed from a Pep striker as it gets! He's spent 2 years trying to get Aguero to be a more rounded player who's involved in the build up, why would he then go and buy a player who's even more limited outside the box than Aguero was before Pep arrived?

 

[ak93city]

Bringing in Hazard to fix menatlity? haha, you can't be serious?

The guy who doesn't care about winning things, just wants to enjoy his football, who's been criticised by his managers for lacking a killer mentality and who, in 6 years has only shown up for 3 or 4 big games?

Chat to me about your shopping list for the summer then.

Also I'm assuming you agree with signing established players with skill+mentality, instead of yet more raw products?

 

[blueparrot]

We need to make sure we go for quality and not another 12/13 window. We need to start to plan to replace the Silva/Aguero/Kompany/Fernandinho core. I still think they've all got at least 1 more season in them, but these are all world class players and if we don't sign adequate replacements, we'll suffer. Silva/Fernandinho will be the hardest.

I'm thinking Icardi, Isco, Fabinho & Skriniar. Another 200mil, but that team is set up for the next 5/6 years.

We cant bring in all their replacements this summer just because of squad numbers. Fernandinho's replacement seems to be a target this summer. I still think Bernardo will eventually fill Silva's role. Aguero will either be replaced by Jesus or if not next summer a replacement is more likely. Kompany not sure but if he stays another season he will probably be 4th choice behind Stones Laporte and Otamendi.

 

[mosssideblue]

We need to make sure we go for quality and not another 12/13 window. We need to start to plan to replace the Silva/Aguero/Kompany/Fernandinho core. I still think they've all got at least 1 more season in them, but these are all world class players and if we don't sign adequate replacements, we'll suffer. Silva/Fernandinho will be the hardest.

I'm thinking Icardi, Isco, Fabinho & Skriniar. Another 200mil, but that team is set up for the next 5/6 years.

IIRC, this was the strap line being used on here last season

 

[OB1]

I believe the squad needs to be challenged again and a big household name introduced to give everyone a further boost for next season.

Hazard and Lewandowski would be lovely.

Probably going to be Bailey and Weigl.

Maybe Bale (underwhelmed)

Not Bale - that shipped sailed years ago. Too much of a sick note.

Like the look of Bailey. Really don't know Wiegl but he seems to divide opinion an awful lot; must try and catch a game or two of his.

Hazard is guy I really want us to buy.

Lewandowski would do well for us.