Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

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FanchesterCity said:
Look at it another way - we THOUGHT we had a brilliant squad last year - in fact for the last 4 or 5 years we've thought it's been very good. It WAS good enough to scrape two league titles and that's impressive, but we've hardly dominated, and we've certainly had our arses handed to us in Europe a few times.
We've had our moments when we've looked amazing, but we've not done it consistently. The reality is that despite all the money we've spent, we're just 'very good' but not world beaters.
We don't have the best players in the world either - we have some the 'best of the rest'.
Many fans love Joe, and there's no harm in that. Many love Zab, or Silva or Kompany etc but if we are serious about being one of the very best sides in Europe (if not THE best) then Joe's probably not good enough, and it seems Pep is more certain of that than I am. Zab probably isn't good enough either. Silva might be, Vinny might be if fit. But those are my opinions. Pep might even think Silva's silky skills are great, but can't work for 90 mins at the level he wants.
For all we know, he might think Aguero's a fantastic finisher but we rely on him too much and wants to replace him with a front two. It's not necessarily about any individual's skill, but of the rest players for the right job. Real Madrid's Galacticos experiment proved not to be as amazing as they'd hoped - yet it was laden with skilled players.

Pep COULD be wrong. Pep MIGHT turn out to be a disaster in the PL, we MIGHT end up worse than when he arrived, but he's the guy we've brought in to call the shots. He's widely accepted as one of the best, and we have little option but to trust him.
And what if he's right? what then. We'll look back on Joe like we do with Tevez or Bellamy and say 'they played their part' - which Joe did.

One of our legends - Shaun Goater - he's remembered for what he did for us, but we'll all agree, he'd be lucky to be driving the team bus nowadays. That's just how football is, and at the very top it's tougher than ever. Every club that's ever been successful has ditched some huge favourites, even at their peak. Toshack / Keegan / Van Nistelrooy / Ronaldinho / Maradona. Joe's not even close to those guys.

We can't keep saying 'he's done this for us in the past' - we have to ask 'what do we think he can do for us in the future' and it seems Pep's already asked that question and come back with 'not enough'.
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I think that is a good summation. And for me the key words conatained within are "the future"
 
Metalartin said:
Look I can see Peps reasons but I hope people realise what we are getting and why, he already knows Peps style and he's great with his feet while being good at the rest of it. He's second choice at Barca when both are fit I thought and I don't see anyone placing him in the top 5 keepers in the world lists. I'm not worried though he's good enough better fit than anything we have but not the long term solution obviously.
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Personally I think Bravo could be an interim measure. To eventually become our number 2 in favour of an even better and younger keeper. There's no reason to assume that Bravo is Pep's ultimate option.
 
Will always be amused by how many people seem to think they know better than Pep Guardiola, the best manager in world football.

I'd love for Joe to stay and somehow turn into Iniesta overnight as much as anybody, but at the end of the day he is not right for this new football we are playing and it's the right thing for him and us to move on.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
We see this a lot on here, in recent seasons.

People who seem to put their love and respect of personalities above the best interests of the club?

I suspect outside of the emotion, there are also plenty who are just fearful of what might now come with change.

The bedrock of a team which has won trophies, but needs to evolve for the first time.

The fact we have Pep overseeing that change, we should consider ourselves the luckiest fans in world football.

He's not been here long enough to let emotion get in the way, he is making informed decisions based on what he has no doubt observed from afar for a good while.

It's also cemented by an approach which can be backed up with numerous trophies at the highest level.

We've still yet to experience operating at the highest of levels, barring a virtual bystander in last season's Champions League semi final, devoid of tactics or belief.

Mancini didn't fancy Hart, even Pellegrini showed his uncertainty.

Now Pep.
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Us older fans have difficulty embracing it too. For once as a blue I feel like we've got a manager who will build this club from bottom up with teams built on being together with a winning ethos, which I find very strange. I think I need to keep that in my head too. This is a new City. As I said to couple of kids who'd been to the game on Saturday "You are the luckiest blues alive"

In pep we trust.
 
Seems a shame to let him go after barely seeing him as he came back late from euros. Surely constant coaching to play that way could improve him and his passing. Sad to see a true citizen leave, he loves the club. Also we're surely lacking home grown players if he leaves?
 
FanchesterCity said:
Look at it another way - we THOUGHT we had a brilliant squad last year - in fact for the last 4 or 5 years we've thought it's been very good. It WAS good enough to scrape two league titles and that's impressive, but we've hardly dominated, and we've certainly had our arses handed to us in Europe a few times.
We've had our moments when we've looked amazing, but we've not done it consistently. The reality is that despite all the money we've spent, we're just 'very good' but not world beaters.
We don't have the best players in the world either - we have some the 'best of the rest'.
Many fans love Joe, and there's no harm in that. Many love Zab, or Silva or Kompany etc but if we are serious about being one of the very best sides in Europe (if not THE best) then Joe's probably not good enough, and it seems Pep is more certain of that than I am. Zab probably isn't good enough either. Silva might be, Vinny might be if fit. But those are my opinions. Pep might even think Silva's silky skills are great, but can't work for 90 mins at the level he wants.
For all we know, he might think Aguero's a fantastic finisher but we rely on him too much and wants to replace him with a front two. It's not necessarily about any individual's skill, but of the rest players for the right job. Real Madrid's Galacticos experiment proved not to be as amazing as they'd hoped - yet it was laden with skilled players.

Pep COULD be wrong. Pep MIGHT turn out to be a disaster in the PL, we MIGHT end up worse than when he arrived, but he's the guy we've brought in to call the shots. He's widely accepted as one of the best, and we have little option but to trust him.
And what if he's right? what then. We'll look back on Joe like we do with Tevez or Bellamy and say 'they played their part' - which Joe did.

One of our legends - Shaun Goater - he's remembered for what he did for us, but we'll all agree, he'd be lucky to be driving the team bus nowadays. That's just how football is, and at the very top it's tougher than ever. Every club that's ever been successful has ditched some huge favourites, even at their peak. Toshack / Keegan / Van Nistelrooy / Ronaldinho / Maradona. Joe's not even close to those guys.

We can't keep saying 'he's done this for us in the past' - we have to ask 'what do we think he can do for us in the future' and it seems Pep's already asked that question and come back with 'not enough'.
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Excellent post. Worth reading twice, and there aren't many of those on here.

Joe's a very good keeper, and he's been playing in an at times very good team. If the aim is now to step up from that to become one of the two or three best teams in Europe — and that clearly is the aim, because otherwise why do you hire the best manager in the world on a multi-million pound contract? — then you let him call the shots.
 
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FanchesterCity said:
Personally I think Bravo could be an interim measure. To eventually become our number 2 in favour of an even better and younger keeper. There's no reason to assume that Bravo is Pep's ultimate option.
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Yeah I'm sure he'll be fine for the short term(in fact that's two players at either end of the pitch that's worked with Pep before isn't it? That could speed the transition along nicely for the other players), I hope Angus Gunn gets a look in but maybe that's wishful thinking, it would certainly save us a pretty penny if it worked out that way.
 
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