Political relations between UK-EU

bluejon said:
Out of interest, are you as fantastic as you seem to think you are?

As for this constant blaming people who voted remain for the mess we're now in, that's some mental gymnastics you have there. Blaming people who didn't want this for the mess that we said it would cause if people voted for it. But, we've spoke enough times that I know there is nothing I could say that will make you change your mind one iota.
Click to expand...
TBF - I genuinely do not like to make reference to having the knowledge and experience to speak with authority on the subject of managing major government transformation programmes (implementing Brexit is one)

Genuinely - I mean that and accept that you and others would/should not believe that - because I have referred to it a lot over the years. I am a believer in the old saying 'Self praise is no praise at all'.

I have fallen into mentioning on here that I am indeed qualified to address the idiocy that some of the posters set out. These have included many snide comments and personal insults. Anyway, having done it, I recognise that I cannot win because I accept it will make me look like a cock to some - a particular poster has called me an outright liar several times.

But such insults do not change the facts and I guess the answer your question is provided by who has employed me over the past 20+ years and what they have employed me to do.

It does mean though that I can say with absolute certainty that had May and Hammond not deliberately prevented the Cabinet Office in 2016 doing their job - which was to undertake the preparations and management of the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, with one of the options being the (promised by Remain) exiting from the SM and CU - then the vast majority, probably all, of the issues that have so far manifested and those yet to emerge would have been mitigated or their impact planned for. This does not mean all things would have been smooth - it means though that issues would have been identified, mitigations and contingencies planned and managed - not springing up out of the blue.

That is a simple fact - an absolute fact that is not impacted by the rants of the frustrated deniers on here - a group that I do not include you amongst.
 
Last edited:
bluejon said:
Out of interest, are you as fantastic as you seem to think you are?

As for this constant blaming people who voted remain for the mess we're now in, that's some mental gymnastics you have there. Blaming people who didn't want this for the mess that we said it would cause if people voted for it. But, we've spoke enough times that I know there is nothing I could say that will make you change your mind one iota.
Click to expand...
Just beyond the question you asked - I need to correct you on the bit I have bolded.

I am very very confident that you will not find a post from me that 'collectively' blames people that voted Remain for anything of the sort - you have misread things.

Indeed, I have always given the collective Remain voters full respect for their choice - I have often wished the general attitude of Leavers towards Remainers had been reciprocated.

To be clear - what I have done is to:
  • Absolutely and unreservedly blame May, Hammond and Robbins for a lot of the issues that have/are emerging. Without doubt such issues would have been mitigated or their impact lessened if May and Hammond had not stopped proper planning and management being undertaken
  • Given unstinting credit to Grieve, Soubry, Bercow, Corbyn, Starmer and other specific individuals - without who the UK would not have departed the EU with a genuine Brexit outcome
  • Challenged the bias and myopia of some individual posters on here - to prevent their lack of understanding - so often portrayed as the truth - misleading the forum. This is the only social media platform that I have such discussions on, you will not find me haunting other platforms - I am not, unlike some, a political activist and obsessed with the subject.
Hope that helps
 
mcfc1632 said:
TBF - I genuinely do not like to make reference to having the knowledge and experience to speak with authority on the subject of managing major government transformation programmes (implementing Brexit is one)

Genuinely - I mean that and accept that you and others would/should not believe that - because I have referred to it a lot over the years. I am a believer in the old saying 'Self praise is no praise at all'.

I have fallen into mentioning on here that I am indeed qualified to address the idiocy that some of the posters set out. These have included many snide comments and personal insults. Anyway, having done it, I recognise that I cannot win because I accept it will make me look like a cock to some - a particular poster has called me an outright liar several times.

But such insults do not change the facts and I guess the answer your question is provided by who has employed me over the past 20+ years and what they have employed me to do.

It does mean though that I can say with absolute certainty that had May and Hammond had not deliberately prevented the Cabinet Office in 2016 doing their job - which was to undertake the preparations and management of the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, with one of the options being the (promised by Remain) exiting from the SM and CU - then the vast majority, probably all, of the issues that have so far manifested and those yet to emerge would have been mitigated or their impact planned for. This does not mean all things would have been smooth - it means though that issues would have been identified, mitigations and contingencies planned and managed - not springing up out of the blue.

That is a simple fact - an absolute fact that is not impacted by the rants of the frustrated deniers on here - a group that I do not include you amongst.
Click to expand...
The problem you have here is that regardless of what people are saying on here, brexit was never fully defined. Cameron said one thing, Johnson said another, Farage said another, Corbyn mostly looked after his allotment etc etc. So when the question "Do you want to leave the EU" came up, that meant many things to different people. I know committed brexiters who were appalled at the idea of leaving the customs union, so your comments about May and Hammond don't hold water. They were not trying to frustrate brexit, they were trying to put through the version of brexit that they thought best. And May was voted in by the party members who overwhelmingly wanted brexit, so again, this is not on remain voters, this is a tory party fuck up.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just beyond the question you asked - I need to correct you on the bit I have bolded.

I am very very confident that you will not find a post from me that 'collectively' blames people that voted Remain for anything of the sort - you have misread things.

Indeed, I have always given the collective Remain voters full respect for their choice - I have often wished the general attitude of Leavers towards Remainers had been reciprocated.

To be clear - what I have done is to:
  • Absolutely and unreservedly blame May, Hammond and Robbins for a lot of the issues that have/are emerging. Without doubt such issues would have been mitigated or their impact lessened if May and Hammond had not stopped proper planning and management being undertaken
  • Given unstinting credit to Grieve, Soubry, Bercow, Corbyn, Starmer and other specific individuals - without who the UK would not have departed the EU with a genuine Brexit outcome
  • Challenged the bias and myopia of some individual posters on here - to prevent their lack of understanding - so often portrayed as the truth - misleading the forum. This is the only social media platform that I have such discussions on, you will not find me haunting other platforms - I am not, unlike some, a political activist and obsessed with the subject.
Hope that helps
Click to expand...

"I don't blame Remainers for the problems" then posts a long list of names of Remainers blaming them- YCNMIP.

To change tack - you were fulsome in your praise of the appointment of Frosty the Showman and his "team of professional negotiators"............they were so accomplished they didn't spot and flag up the issues which Gove is now having to address with a rather embarrassing letter to the EU begging for a 2 year extension..........?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Pathetic as that is - I will go against my instincts and put some more appropriate context of the here and now to it - this scenario is more fitting I think:

There is this fella down the pub and every time me and my mates walk in - he bangs on about this fucking posh pen he used to have - Mont Blanc I think he calls it. Anyway - he goes on and on about how good it was - proper quality apparently, but others look on in sadness at his bleating.

The thing is - they know that:

a) he does not have it any more and he will never be able to get another one and therefore all he is doing is boring the shit out of everyone and

b) he has a shit memory anyway - so many others knew it was a shit pen. In reality he just fantasises about the fucking thing and forgets how it was way over-priced and that there are far better and more reliable models available nowadays. In fact the reviews were so bad that people got together and decided to remove it as an option.

But fuck - you know that he is still going to go on about it, as he sits in a a corner talking to a reducing number of tolerant mates. Best to just smile and put up with it - at least he supports a proper team, although it is hard to get him to speak about football due to his obsession with that fucking pen

But - FFS, whatever you do, don't let him hear you mention some other brand of pen - you will only set him off again............
Click to expand...
Only a backward bureaucracy would use pens these days
 
bluejon said:
The problem you have here is that regardless of what people are saying on here, brexit was never fully defined. Cameron said one thing, Johnson said another, Farage said another, Corbyn mostly looked after his allotment etc etc. So when the question "Do you want to leave the EU" came up, that meant many things to different people. I know committed brexiters who were appalled at the idea of leaving the customs union, so your comments about May and Hammond don't hold water. They were not trying to frustrate brexit, they were trying to put through the version of brexit that they thought best. And May was voted in by the party members who overwhelmingly wanted brexit, so again, this is not on remain voters, this is a tory party fuck up.
Click to expand...

Neither side was really defined though. There is a myth peddled that all leave voters voted for different versions of leave whilst all remain voters voted for the same version. That simply isn’t the case - many remain voters acknowledged that the EU needed to change from its present form (arguing it was easier to change it from the inside). But ultimately the ballot paper didn’t give us choices of scale but rather a binary choice of in or out.

And the question was passed by the HoC - I recall labour voting for it ... Tory party fuck up you say?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.