Real Madrid want Otamendi

[Rolee]

Those who read those stat and can't glean from it some obvious facts like
1. Otamendi does more work than Toby. This is glaring from.looking at the data. More tackles won than Toby even attempted. People would say silly things like, well Toby just positions himself well and has to tackle less. But yet same people are impressed by how many tackles Kante gets.

Also if Otamendi was uniquely poor at positioning, this should show up in the interception stats. I.e Toby should be just as good or at least close. But no, he isn't. Not even close. Not even in the same stratosphere.

How about headers. Players who are better positioned also tend to get to those more... No, again, not in the same stratosphere.

How about recoveries. You know the stats that shows you ate good at positioning to pick up lose balls? Again, Toby is nowhere near Otamendi.

There are s few things you can conclude from those stats, even as incomplete as stats are.

1. Toby has significantly more freaking help than Ota. So perhaps its the help that Toby gets from Dier and Wanyama, and then from Vertonghen, Rose and Walker that makes work easier for him.

That the so called anti-stat pundits can't see this, even though its blatant on TV is a bit worrisome.

The 2nd thing you can conclude, without knowing more, is that Otamendi is far from shit.... The numbers he put up year in year out makes it impossible to reach that conclusion.Find me anyone anywhere in Europe who puts up Ota' s #s bit is considered shit. They simply don't exist. Otamendi is not a unicorn.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Nico is better than Bonnucci. Thank God we dodged that bullet.

I'm not anti-stats and I don't believe Otamendi is shit, just wanted to make that clear first.

What I do want to question is your logic in using Kante and the fact that people are so impressed with his number of tackles when you're comparing two centre backs, I'm struggling to understand what that has to do with the debate?

I get frustrated with Otamendi for what seems to me like a lack of focus and concentration. For example, Monaco at home, he gets caught out with a rather obvious ball over the top to Mbappe which we concede from, not the worst crime in the world but what grates is he doesn't learn from it as in the second half he goes asleep again allowing Falcao to get goalside of him which results in him desperately trying to make up ground and leads to him lunging at Falcao and conceding a penalty.

A top centre back doesn't allow the second lapse in the same game if he's already been burned from the first.

 

[domalino]

I've never understood the lack of appreciation for Otamendi, he's a superb defender. Let's compare him to Toby Alderweireld in the league last season who, most on here consider one of the best centre backs in the league.

Games played

Nico - 30
Toby - 30

Clean sheet

Nico - 9
Toby - 14

Tackles

Nico - 69
Toby - 41

Tackle success %

Nico - 75%
Toby - 85%

Interceptions

Nico - 84
Toby - 26

Clearances

Nico - 190
Toby - 162

Headed clearance

Nico - 138
Toby - 84

Recoveries

Nico - 173
Toby - 130

Duals won

Nico - 222
Toby - 92

Ariel battles won

Nico - 117
Toby - 42

Passes

Nico - 1945
Toby - 1522

Big chances created

Nico - 2
Toby - 0

Through balls

Nico - 5
Toby - 1


Even more interestingly - if you compare Nico's stats last season to those of Kompany's during the 11/12 season (where Kompany played 31 league games) - Nico still comes out on top across most of the above.

This post is everything wrong with online football, squawka stats and whoscored player ratings.

The idea that you're a better player because you make more tackles, or interceptions, that it doesn't matter how often you're caught out of position or lose your maker because you created more chances or played more through balls.

I genuinely thought it was an ironic comment, but sadly it seems not.

 

[Dax777]

I'm not anti-stats and I don't believe Otamendi is shit, just wanted to make that clear first.

What I do want to question is your logic in using Kante and the fact that people are so impressed with his number of tackles when you're comparing two centre backs, I'm struggling to understand what that has to do with the debate?

I get frustrated with Otamendi for what seems to me like a lack of focus and concentration. For example, Monaco at home, he gets caught out with a rather obvious ball over the top to Mbappe which we concede from, not the worst crime in the world but what grates is he doesn't learn from it as in the second half he goes asleep again allowing Falcao to get goalside of him which results in him desperately trying to make up ground and leads to him lunging at Falcao and conceding a penalty.

A top centre back doesn't allow the second lapse in the same game if he's already been burned from the first.

The Kante reference was simply highlighting the double standard. People are all too willing to accept stats when it tallies with their bias. But quick to caution when it doesn't.

Take @domalino post just below your response for example. Its a standard resppnse to using stat to augment a position.

Notice how he turns a use of stats to show "Otamendi can not be bad like people claim. I mean look at his numbers compared to those of someone people deem really good" which was Martin's point in his stats post.

Doma ignores the actual point being made and instead rails at the red herring "statician" who believe "Otamendi is better coz he has better stats." That was never his point.

But it never fails to elicit the above response.

 

[Martin*]

This post is everything wrong with online football, squawka stats and whoscored player ratings.

The idea that you're a better player because you make more tackles, or interceptions, that it doesn't matter how often you're caught out of position or lose your maker because you created more chances or played more through balls.

I genuinely thought it was an ironic comment, but sadly it seems not.

You're clueless.

The Kante reference was simply highlighting the double standard. People are all too willing to accept stats when it tallies with their bias. But quick to caution when it doesn't.

Take @domalino post just below your response for example. Its a standard resppnse to using stat to augment a position.

Notice how he turns a use of stats to show "Otamendi can not be bad like people claim. I mean look at his numbers compared to those of someone people deem really good" which was Martin's point in his stats post.

Doma ignores the actual point being made and instead rails at the red herring "statician" who believe "Otamendi is better coz he has better stats." That was never his point.

But it never fails to elicit the above response.

You get it.

 

[domalino]

The Kante reference was simply highlighting the double standard. People are all too willing to accept stats when it tallies with their bias. But quick to caution when it doesn't.

Take @domalino post just below your response for example. Its a standard resppnse to using stat to augment a position.

Notice how he turns a use of stats to show "Otamendi can not be bad like people claim. I mean look at his numbers compared to those of someone people deem really good" which was Martin's point in his stats post.

Doma ignores the actual point being made and instead rails at the red herring "statician" who believe "Otamendi is better coz he has better stats." That was never his point.

But it never fails to elicit the above response.

Like usual you're chatting shit Dax. The poster above used statistics like tackling to show how Otamendi compared to Alderweireld in an attempt to show he's not bad, which inherently means you think stats like # of tackles, # of interceptions correlates to how good a player you are.

He might as well have said "Andros Townsend can not be bad like people claim. I mean look at his sprint speed compared to those of someone people deem really good like Messi"

Because everyone, even you, know that actually Alderweireld making 30 fewer tackles doesn't make him worse than Otamendi. Therefore to use that stat in an attempt to show he's "not bad" is completely idiotic.

 

[domalino]

You're clueless.

Do you think Otamendi making 30 more tackles than Alderweireld makes him a better player?

If yes, you're an idiot.

If no, why would you use it in an attempt to show Otamendi isn't bad?

 

[Martin*]

Do you think Otamendi making 30 more tackles than Alderweireld makes him a better player?

If yes, you're an idiot.

If no, why would you use it in an attempt to show Otamendi isn't bad?

I don't need stats to know Otamendi isn't bad, I have eyes, I watch him week in week out. Stats only show so much but the reality is, many on here would have you believe he's a complete disaster when the reality is:

• Shit defenders do not post those kind of stats (that are only needed to provide a base for the discussion because people like you bleat out constant dross).
• Shit defenders do not get into the La Liga team of the year.
• Shit defenders do not attract the interest of Real Madrid.

So you have facts, stats and my opinion from my own eyes of watching him. What have you got? A handful of errors he's made and your opinion? I'll pass thanks and stick to what I see. Off you pop.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Put ota in a defensive team ie Chelsea,rags he would be an absolute beast he's just not suited to our high pressing attacking formation that's all no wonder Madrid are after him. I'd keep him and play him with Vinny ad they looked solid with each other back end of season

 

[01cravend]

Whoever thinks Otamendi is a bad defender is an idiot

 

[domalino]

I don't need stats to know Otamendi isn't bad, I have eyes, I watch him week in week out. Stats only show so much but the reality is, many on here would have you believe he's a complete disaster when the reality is:

• Shit defenders do not post those kind of stats (that are only needed to provide a base for the discussion because people like you bleat out constant dross).
• Shit defenders do not get into the La Liga team of the year.
• Shit defenders do not attract the interest of Real Madrid.

So you have facts, stats and my opinion from my own eyes of watching him. What have you got? A handful of errors he's made and your opinion? I'll pass thanks and stick to what I see. Off you pop.

The funny thing is I didn't even pass an opinion of Otamendi, just your idiocy for thinking hes better than Alderweireld for making more tackles.