Sevilla U19s v City U19s 3/11/2015

[Neville Kneville]

I do feel that Barker has more variation to his game and i agree, Roberts has gone backwards since the Juve game, but you also said the same about Manu Garcia during pre season and now look at him, he is struggling to perform to a good level in the EDS team.

I know your a big believer in giving youth a chance and your very optimistic about the academy, but the only time we should ever give youth a chance is if they are standing out in the academy on a consistent basis, i.e. Jason Denayer who for me looked head and shoulders above anything i have seen in the past decade or so. Any of the other players would not get a look in right now for me, possibly only Pablo Maffeo as he is quite a consistent player and seeing as we have had injuries in that position throughout the past year.

I am not counting Iheanacho within that bracket and i now class him as a first team player.

The only time we should give youth a chance is if they stand out in the academy ? So that would be Barker, Bryan, Maffeo, Boadu if he wss fit, Ambrose once he recovers last season's form from the current bunch, & not Roberts or Garcia at present, although Roberts deserved a chance due to his performance v Juve. What he has shown since then, is much less goal threat, pace & intelligence compared to Barker, wheras Garcia has shown a lower level of pretty much everything, by comparison to pretty much everybody.

I'm sure both Roberts & Garcia will raise their level sooner or later because both have great talent, but it appears to me that if the club pays money for you, then you automatically get closer to the first team.

It's about time some of the players who deserve a chance, are given a chance.

Incidentally, what is the fucking point of taking Barker with the first team, when he has played hardly any football for months & wasn't even considered worth 5 mins v Palace ? What the fuck is he supposed to do if he gets on v Seville ? Why were two kids who aren't involved, preferred to him ? Where is the plan in that ?

There isn't one.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

we need a B team in a competitive league which would allow us to send 4/5 out to play first team together at once.

 

[twosips]

I do feel that Barker has more variation to his game and i agree, Roberts has gone backwards since the Juve game, but you also said the same about Manu Garcia during pre season and now look at him, he is struggling to perform to a good level in the EDS team.

I know your a big believer in giving youth a chance and your very optimistic about the academy, but the only time we should ever give youth a chance is if they are standing out in the academy on a consistent basis, i.e. Jason Denayer who for me looked head and shoulders above anything i have seen in the past decade or so. Any of the other players would not get a look in right now for me, possibly only Pablo Maffeo as he is quite a consistent player and seeing as we have had injuries in that position throughout the past year.

I am not counting Iheanacho within that bracket and i now class him as a first team player.

To be fair, if you read my reports and posts in general I've said this season that Garcia has struggled this year and I've not been an advocate of him bring involved with the first team ahead of others. This season not many would get a look in at EDS level, Maffeo and Bryan aside, based on form - I agree, but last year Ambrose, barker, Celina etc were at times brilliant and defo deserved to have made their debut, even for ten mins, based on their performances. Byrne too, definitely. Angelino's inclusion in the squad tonight would suggest that Pellers values first team experience, in some way, as hugely important. Angelino hasn't been great at NYCFC, mixed in fact, but he's still jumped ahead of others tonight which is telling.

So perhaps the likes of Denayer, Byrne etc will be taken more seriously if they return. I'd like to see Bryan, barker and others get short loans as a result. A one month tester for Bryan would be perfect.

 

[twosips]

Incidentally, what is the fucking point of taking Barker with the first team, when he has played hardly any football for months & wasn't even considered worth 5 mins v Palace ? What the fuck is he supposed to do if he gets on v Seville ? Why were two kids who aren't involved, preferred to him ? Where is the plan in that ?

There isn't one.

This. Absolutely pointless as he's just not playing football and he's never gonna get used tonight - Pellers would bring a senior defender on and push Kolarov wide instead or sumat. It feels very short termist.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

The only time we should give youth a chance is if they stand out in the academy ? So that would be Barker, Bryan, Maffeo, Boadu if he wss fit, Ambrose once he recovers last season's form from the current bunch, & not Roberts or Garcia at present, although Roberts deserved a chance due to his performance v Juve. What he has shown since then, is much less goal threat, pace & intelligence compared to Barker, wheras Garcia has shown a lower level of pretty much everything, by comparison to pretty much everybody.

I'm sure both Roberts & Garcia will raise their level sooner or later because both have great talent, but it appears to me that if the club pays money for you, then you automatically get closer to the first team.

It's about time some of the players who deserve a chance, are given a chance.

Incidentally, what is the fucking point of taking Barker with the first team, when he has played hardly any football for months & wasn't even considered worth 5 mins v Palace ? What the fuck is he supposed to do if he gets on v Seville ? Why were two kids who aren't involved, preferred to him ? Where is the plan in that ?

There isn't one.

I would guess the thinking is that Garcia and Roberts who have been with the first team recently are not eligible to play 1st team tonight, of the rest of the B list players Barker has the most experience of first team football. Not saying that it’s the right decision but it does make some sense. Any other option would involve a player getting on the bench for the first time (I think). Barker is a touch ahead in terms of experience.

I guess his only chance of game time will be if we are significantly ahead or if there are several injuries to the attacking/wide players. On that note Ambrose would have been a better option as if we start with Bony and Sterling we will have no other striker option on the bench.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I would guess the thinking is that Garcia and Roberts who have been with the first team recently are not eligible to play 1st team tonight, of the rest of the B list players Barker has the most experience of first team football. Not saying that it’s the right decision but it does make some sense. Any other option would involve a player getting on the bench for the first time (I think). Barker is a touch ahead in terms of experience.

I guess his only chance of game time will be if we are significantly ahead or if there are several injuries to the attacking/wide players. On that note Ambrose would have been a better option as if we start with Bony and Sterling we will have no other striker option on the bench.

So why then, were those two given time on the pitch v Palace, & Barker not? Especially when Roberts was actually brought on in Barker's position.

 

[supercity88]

But what would you have said about Roberts after the Juventus game? I am sure you would have raved about him just like every other fan on this forum.

Celina and Aleix Garcia are 2 totally different players, hard to compare them. Manu Garcia with Celina is much more comparable and i did state i think Celina is better.

As for Boadu, i am sure many City fans on this forum has rarely seen anything of him as he is injured half of the time. He did look promising at under 18 level, but he does need to play more in order for us to judge what he is all about.

As for Barker and Roberts, they are both on a similar level for me, both good in their own right.

As for Bryan and Kongolo, Bryan IMO is better at CB and i feel did not look as good at CM and Kongolo is slowly being introduced to this level and so far i think he has done well. e is certainly doing well at under 18 level. Bryan is more advanced in the way that he has had more experience at this level before so again, it is difficult to compare.

As for Jack Byrne, i really enjoy watching him play, good little footballer.

Without arguing the ins and outs of what was said, the general comment that we've a lot of better players than those who started today is true. A midfield three of Celina, Boadu and Bryan is better than what was on show today. Boadu is a class act but he's injured and we've not seen enough of him. Manu Garcia is classy on the ball but doesn't offer himself enough. When he does get on the ball he is very comfortable in possession but it doesn't happen often enough. Bryan was fantastic at centre back but is better in midfield where his reading of the game coupled with ability on the ball makes him the perfect DM. Today isn't a game to say player a) is shite and player b) is better. Celina has had several games where he's done very little, a Jovetic type that has all the technique but has been wasteful in the no.10 role. Inconsistency is the main theme at this level. Jack Bryne is a classy player and that's why he's out on loan. He's wasted at this level but not quite ready for first team action.

On today's performance you can't say Aleix Garcia or Kongolo are worthy of a place in the side. They may as well have been bird watching, they spent so much time staring at the ball in the sky. Neither managed to get a grip on the ball, Kongolo in particular was very poor. His touch was lacking and he didn't seem to be able to tell his legs where to go.

The game was scrappy but the second goal showed that as bad as the pitch was, and as dirty the Sevilla players were, we could have established our passing brand of football. There were far too many instant long ball passes being played. Roberts was taking their defence on single handedly too often trying to recreate the Juve goal. I don't blame him, he's probably thinking do that again and I'm on the first team bench and can get a sub appearance and maybe earn a start soon... it's tough to be in the first team setup one week and then starting for the EDS... but it's the reality for him and he needs to find consistency and mature in his role.

As for Barker... when you watch the EDS and he's playing he's usually one of the best players. He knows when to pass and when to take others on. He's MIA this afternoon so I wonder if he makes the first team bench tonight... there's a place there for him with Roberts starting this game.

 

[Deepest Blue]

The powers that be seem to take the long view on certain players who they see as having a great upside and will favour them over players who are showing better current form.
Let's hope that it pays off as we're likely to lose a few good kids as a result of this.

 

[Neville Kneville]

My feeling about all this, & one of the main reasons I have made similar points over several threads, goes back to quotes from people like Vieira, discussing the problems we have in this country, developing players. The lack of a 'b' team system, meaning they have a crucial period where they miss out on development. He also said how he doesn't really like to loan out players as they then miss out on the coaching from our people.

So that was his speech: we have a problem getting the step between reserve & first team football right, when players reach that age.

So what happens then, from that stated objective, to now ? Denayer is dumped out to Turkey just when he comes back from a hugely successful loan. Lopes is sold after his successful loan. We buy several players including Roberts, then rarely play him & Barker, two top English talents, at all at any level.

From Vieira's comments, are we taking it that they have decided that the best way for these lads to develop, is to stop playing football ? Or is it a complete fuckup & we are not following Vieira's or anyone else's plan, at all ?

How does the treatment of Barker & Roberts, fit in with Viera's stated objective ?

Imo it doesn't. Nor does the sale of Lopes or loans of Denayer & Evans.

We aren't following a plan for these kids, we are just following whatever Pellegrini wants for the first team, & the rest will just have to make do. If it slows their progress, tough. They are footsoldiers for the first team, to be used & or discarded when it is deemed fit. If they are needed, they will play, no matter what. Like Pozo (another who didn't deserve a first team game) last season. If they are not needed, they can go back to the reserves.

I don't think Vieira has any say in it. I don't think we have a plan. I now think perhaps Greg Dyke's plan would be fucking better.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The powers that be seem to take the long view on certain players who they see as having a great upside and will favour them over players who are showing better current form.
Let's hope that it pays off as we're likely to lose a few good kids as a result of this.

Like Pozo last season ?