It's Quiet - a new dawn

[ADegenerate]

Sadly I agree with these.

Why sadly? You want both? Who doesn't :).

 

[WallyA]

Are we going to see the return of 4-4-2?

GK
RB CB CB LB
Sanchez/Sterling CM CM Sane
Mbappe Jesus

This is about the only valid formation that we can adopt if we manage to sign Sanchez and Mbappe. I have seen a lot of formations consigning Sterling and Sane to RWB and LWB respectively but this has the feeling of wanting to play them just to keep them happy about it as there are a lot of players out there that would do a much better job than them in these positions

Afew points worth noting are as follows:

1. Pep doesn't usually do this
2. Doesn't suit our most creative/best players as only one space would be available to select players like KDB, Gundo and Silva from which is less than ideal
3. There are many other areas in our starting 11 that we need to sort out before breaking the bank for Mbappe AND Sanchez

All things considered I think we are trying make sure we get one of both by keeping our options open rather than focusing on one only to loose out on both at the end of the day

Whether we will get any is another matter altogether so here's hoping

Everybody is saying Pep won't do this, but you'd be surprised, I think a 442 or more likely 4411 is very much a possibility. It was his most used formation at Bayern.

LB-CB-CB-RB
Sterling-DM-Silva-Sane
Jesus Aguero

Or whoever the two strikers are. Pep has often used Alcantara in the exact same role Silva does for our team (as one of the CMs, next to a DM), then plays Muller behind Lewandowski, or Jesus behind Aguero/Mbappe (whoever).

 

[ojeme]

Everybody is saying Pep won't do this, but you'd be surprised, I think a 442 or more likely 4411 is very much a possibility. It was his most used formation at Bayern.

LB-CB-CB-RB
Sterling-DM-Silva-Sane
Jesus Aguero

Or whoever the two strikers are. Pep has often used Alcantara in the exact same role Silva does for our team (as one of the CMs, next to a DM), then plays Muller behind Lewandowski, or Jesus behind Aguero/Mbappe (whoever).

Yeah I actually agree with you on the point that we tend to put Pep in a straightjacket but I truly believe that among the most certain qualities in a Pep team is control. Energy levels required to play CM all by oneself next to a DM in the EPL is no child's play and even though I think Silva can do the job, I fear he may get burned out much sooner than desired.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Everybody is saying Pep won't do this, but you'd be surprised, I think a 442 or more likely 4411 is very much a possibility. It was his most used formation at Bayern.

LB-CB-CB-RB
Sterling-DM-Silva-Sane
Jesus Aguero

Or whoever the two strikers are. Pep has often used Alcantara in the exact same role Silva does for our team (as one of the CMs, next to a DM), then plays Muller behind Lewandowski, or Jesus behind Aguero/Mbappe (whoever).

I actually hope we try this out before the seson ends. Fern plays the DM, with Jesus off Aguero. You can call it 4411 or 4231, it's a line up I like a lot.

 

[Sunset]

I actually hope we try this out before the seson ends. Fern plays the DM, with Jesus off Aguero. You can call it 4411 or 4231, it's a line up I like a lot.

This is the dream.

 

[_OVO_]

I don't like that lineup without Kev, so it's a no from me ;/

 

[IWasHere]

I don't like that lineup without Kev, so it's a no from me ;/

How anyone can take him out is beyond me

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I don't like that lineup without Kev, so it's a no from me ;/

Be plenty of games for all over a full season. Kev could play behind the striker role, arguably his best position? Or right wing/mf.

 

[Sunset]

I don't like that lineup without Kev, so it's a no from me ;/

Ideally if we get Fabinho we can also play an even heavier attack, with him slotting in at RB, shifting between DM and RB. Swap out Fernandinho with KDB and Silva for Gundogan depending on how much steel we need.

 

[WallyA]

I don't like that lineup without Kev, so it's a no from me ;/

Kev is great in that he can play so many roles in that formation, the CM (silva spot), CAM (jesus spot), and RW (sterling spot). We absolutely need rotation and kev fills in so many spots. I think Roberts helps in this case as well. Two strikers gives Nacho the chance as well. I think it utilizes our squad better than two floating 8s.

 

[_OVO_]

Be plenty of games for all over a full season. Kev could play behind the striker role, arguably his best position? Or right wing/mf.

Ideally if we get Fabinho we can also play an even heavier attack, with him slotting in at RB, shifting between DM and RB. Swap out Fernandinho with KDB and Silva for Gundogan depending on how much steel we need.

Kev is great in that he can play so many roles in that formation, the CM (silva spot), CAM (jesus spot), and RW (sterling spot). We absolutely need rotation and kev fills in so many spots. I think Roberts helps in this case as well. Two strikers gives Nacho the chance as well. I think it utilizes our squad better than two floating 8s.

Kev needs to be in that lineup regardless of the position, his delivery and clutch passes can and will change the game. Even more so than David's.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Kev needs to be in that lineup regardless of the position, his delivery and clutch passes can and will change the game. Even more so than David's.

We should be looking at a minimum 60 games a season. If we played with 4 mainly forward players and had 6 top players to choose from on average they would have 40 starts each plus what, 10/15 off the bench? That's enough games for everyone.

 

[ojeme]

We should be looking at a minimum 60 games a season. If we played with 4 mainly forward players and had 6 top players to choose from on average they would have 40 starts each plus what, 10/15 off the bench? That's enough games for everyone.

My major issue with the 4411 thingy is the CM spot or if we are making comparisons with Pep'so Bayern, the Alcantara role. It requires great energy levels and even though Silva can do a job there, I'd be scared for him (you know what I mean). KDB on the other hand is an attacker not a midfielder and would disappoint if tasked with that role. Gundo who would have been the best fit has got question marks regarding his physical side (here's hoping that what we have seen so far in his game is as a result of him acclimatising and getting up to speed in England). Even if he does well, we would have to leave out 2 of our best players in Silva and KDB which doesn't bode well. Simply put, 433 might just be the best formation that plays to strenghts of our better players

 

[Dax777]

Why sadly? You want both? Who doesn't :).

I want both. But Ojeme's analysis clearly explains why it's unlikely we'll get both.
Hence the sadly part.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So after seeing Baby Jesus, Sané & Sterling show us a glimpse of possibly the most deadly, exciting, attack in the history of mankind, we are going to go 44 fucking 2 so we can shoehorn in some new signings.

MANUEL, IS THAT YOU ?

BOLLOCKS.

 

[aguero93:20]

So after seeing Baby Jesus, Sané & Sterling show us a glimpse of possibly the most deadly, exciting, attack in the history of mankind, we are going to go 44 fucking 2 so we can shoehorn in some new signings.

MANUEL, IS THAT YOU ?

BOLLOCKS.

The Brendan Rodgers impersonators wanting Sané and Sterling at wing back are worse. At least we know 4-4-2 suits Aguero.

 

[Maldeika]

Everybody is saying Pep won't do this, but you'd be surprised, I think a 442 or more likely 4411 is very much a possibility. It was his most used formation at Bayern.

LB-CB-CB-RB
Sterling-DM-Silva-Sane
Jesus Aguero

Or whoever the two strikers are. Pep has often used Alcantara in the exact same role Silva does for our team (as one of the CMs, next to a DM), then plays Muller behind Lewandowski, or Jesus behind Aguero/Mbappe (whoever).

I do not think it often was a 4-4-2. Maybe sometimes when Coman and Costa were playing on their footwing - but that was the time when we played with fullbacks that filled up the midfield.

And Müller is not a centre forward but somewhat an offensive allrounder - with Pep he filled in various roles - even in one match - from 8 to 10 to hanging striker and winger. And his strength are very unique. Very great tactically, the best player in the world off the ball when it does not mean just positioning (and running) to have own goals but when it is about goals for the team. There is a lot offensives that have an ability to find space for themselves and especially goal chances - but they very seldom do this not in own but in team interest. He is for sure one of Europe's most consistent assist givers from open play and usually scores his load of goals, too. (next season again)

Silva is more a 10, might be able to play an 8/10 - whereas Thiago is a real 8 - can even play a 6/8. You can better compare him to Gündogan than you can compare him to Silva, even if they play lately played with 3 persons in an 8/10 role in the spanish national team - Iniesta, Silva and Thiago. Thiago has the defensive qualities, too, he averaged 2.8 tackles and 4.7 interceptions per match this season. The best in tackles of your team is Fernandinho with 2.5 tackles and Otamendi with 2.9 interceptions (Fernandinho has 2.2).

But - if you compare the systems... Especially in combination with Müller Thiago really acted as a full no. 8 - and Müller even if playing further forward usually takes up more than the usual defensive tasks a comparable player does. I think that is something you should think about - the workrate of the players and the defensive tasks, too. Because you already seem to have that problem when playing Silva and KdB together...

 

[1961_vintage]

-Mid (but can do some saves)-
----------x10 Mids-----------/

 

[richards30]

Morning folks, any new info? @tolmie's hairdoo ?

 

[ojeme]

So after seeing Baby Jesus, Sané & Sterling show us a glimpse of possibly the most deadly, exciting, attack in the history of mankind, we are going to go 44 fucking 2 so we can shoehorn in some new signings.

MANUEL, IS THAT YOU ?

BOLLOCKS.

I really do not think it's an absurd thing to consider a 4-4-2 type formation or its similar variants. Yes we loathed the way we used Dzeko and Aguero in many games where we should have been tighter in midfield but we also saw the way Negredo and Aguero tore the EPL to shreds together. So in my opinion, the deciding factor whether it would work or not is the personnel available for this system. Moreover, as exciting as our attack is right now, we have only managed 60 odd goals so far whilst we scored over 100 in 2013/14 largely because we had 2 upfront. Defence was nothing special but we outscored everyone and went ahead to win. I know Jesus was not involved for much of the campaign but are we saying we should go into a new season without making provision for injuries or whatever it is that could make us loose the services of any one key player in that attacking line? I know that 2 attackers this summer is a bit of a stretch considering that we have other areas that need urgent fixing and the fact that we have world class mids who would be made redundant should we sign 2 forwards, but we need one more attacker in our starting 11.
Maldeika's post below highlights the reason why Silva is not Alcantara (not in terms of ability but function) and so for the sake of balance and the need to play to our strenghts, I wouldn't recommend a 4-4-2 type system not because it's bad but for the reasons given above

I do not think it often was a 4-4-2. Maybe sometimes when Coman and Costa were playing on their footwing - but that was the time when we played with fullbacks that filled up the midfield.

And Müller is not a centre forward but somewhat an offensive allrounder - with Pep he filled in various roles - even in one match - from 8 to 10 to hanging striker and winger. And his strength are very unique. Very great tactically, the best player in the world off the ball when it does not mean just positioning (and running) to have own goals but when it is about goals for the team. There is a lot offensives that have an ability to find space for themselves and especially goal chances - but they very seldom do this not in own but in team interest. He is for sure one of Europe's most consistent assist givers from open play and usually scores his load of goals, too. (next season again)

Silva is more a 10, might be able to play an 8/10 - whereas Thiago is a real 8 - can even play a 6/8. You can better compare him to Gündogan than you can compare him to Silva, even if they play lately played with 3 persons in an 8/10 role in the spanish national team - Iniesta, Silva and Thiago. Thiago has the defensive qualities, too, he averaged 2.8 tackles and 4.7 interceptions per match this season. The best in tackles of your team is Fernandinho with 2.5 tackles and Otamendi with 2.9 interceptions (Fernandinho has 2.2).

But - if you compare the systems... Especially in combination with Müller Thiago really acted as a full no. 8 - and Müller even if playing further forward usually takes up more than the usual defensive tasks a comparable player does. I think that is something you should think about - the workrate of the players and the defensive tasks, too. Because you already seem to have that problem when playing Silva and KdB together...