It's Quiet - a new dawn

[Barcon]

I'd rather eat my own arsehole than see that scruffy looking cocksucker Walker turn out in one of our shirts.

 

[IWasHere]

If you say Mbappe and Jesus can play on the wings then he is competing with San and Sterling because the choice would be Sané-Mbappé-Sterling or Mbappé-Unal-Sterling and that means he's competing with them.

Not to mention the very simple fact that 5 players have to be played 40+ times to stay happy in a 60 game season and that means no room for anyone else up there.

As for Aleix Garcia, if Pep doesn't trust him to play ahead of the Delph, Fernando and Fernandinho in recent form, then he's going to have no chance when we actually sign some good enough midfielders.

What I mean when I say Gabby and Mbappe can play on the wings is that they'll give us a bit of fluidity whenever we chose to play 433 because we can line up with a front 3 of Gabby, Unal and Mbappe. Besides @Jazzman made a good point about him not being able to get a work permit so I guess he's not gonna be in the squad next season.

Like I said earlier before mate, I don't expect them to be in the starting line up, I just think we'll get to see them play a bit more than we have this season. Having said that pre season is gonna be vital for him.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

We're a lot further away than 2 fullbacks.

We need a world class Keeper, 2 fullbacks, a centre half who can do what Kompany does, a holding midfielder who can both defend and dictate play, and at least one more big goal threat up front.

We also need to bring in some out and out winners who are going to change the environment of the dressing room because our mentality in big games is no where near good enough. We blamed Pellegrini for shambolic displays like the CL semi-final last year, but our last 4 big games have felt exactly the same. It's clearly the group of players and not the manager.

Harsh but true. I am really optimistic about the future though.

Look at the list of our needs that you laid out. Ederson seems a lock, there is no way we don't get two new fullbacks AND Maffeo. Same for CB and Attack. The only area I am worried about is the DM/Pivot position. I haven't heard us linked with anyone who I think is really the long term answer. But with that said we should be a completely different team next season. You want winners who will change the environment? As young as he is, Jesus is that guy. Hopefully a couple of the other new guys bring that passion too. Sanchez certainly has it.

 

[kun]

----------------------Ederson
--------------Stones-----------Bonucci
------Walker--------Fabinho-------T. Hernández
------------De Bruyne-------Silva
-----Sterling-------------------------Sané
----------------------Mbappé

 

[MCFC ISRAEL]

----------------------Ederson
--------------Stones-----------Bonucci
------Walker--------Fabinho-------T. Hernández
------------De Bruyne-------Silva
-----Sterling-------------------------Sané
----------------------Mbappé

I would choose Sanchez over Sterling, but yeah that look amazing

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Define blow them out of the water? Wiki says we spent 168 million last season. I got my dream signing in GJ so I'm not being picky this year.

Agreed. Last summer was very very good IMO. It won't be fully realized for another year or two. This coming summer will dwarf it though IMO. This will be as big as we have seen with all the contracts expiring and the four on loan presumably sold.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

People are so busy arguing about Kyle Walker that they seemed to have missed TH post about the "blast zone being beautiful"

To me that says something more than Kyle Walker.......no idea what but IM looking forward to finding out.

It looks like this could be our biggest transfer season yet....it will have to be good to trump the one with Silva and Yaya in it (plus Kun Kolarov, Balotelli and Boating - though he didnt work out)
If it beats that then its going to be worth the wait.

Aguero was the following summer.

 

[pudge]

----------------------Ederson
--------------Stones-----------Bonucci
------Walker--------Fabinho-------T. Hernández
------------De Bruyne-------Silva
-----Sterling-------------------------Sané
----------------------Mbappé

Is that your FIFA Ultimate Team? It's well sick m8, innit

 

[TotalFootballOne]

What kind of team does Pep want to build there lol

Sanchez, Mbappe with Sane, Sterling, GJ and Aguero in the squad already. I'm sure Aguero will be sold if the two come in, but still Sanchez, Mbappe, Sane, Sterling, GJ. I mean if your a City fan you can't complain as you'll be set for the future in terms of offense.

GK
CB-Stones-CB
DM
Sterling-KdB-Sane
Sanchez-Mbappe-GJ

Or Sanchez behind Mbappe-GJ

Pep wanted Mbappe last summer interesting question would be would he have bought GJ if he had gotten him?

 

[M14Exile]

I'd rather eat my own arsehole than see that scruffy looking cocksucker Walker turn out in one of our shirts.

This, agree completely. Wish I could have put it quite as eloquently.

 

[ADegenerate]

What kind of team does Pep want to build there lol

Sanchez, Mbappe with Sane, Sterling, GJ and Aguero in the squad already. I'm sure Aguero will be sold if the two come in, but still Sanchez, Mbappe, Sane, Sterling, GJ. I mean if your a City fan you can't complain as you'll be set for the future in terms of offense.

GK
CB-Stones-CB
DM
Sterling-KdB-Sane
Sanchez-Mbappe-GJ

Or Sanchez behind Mbappe-GJ

Pep wanted Mbappe last summer interesting question would be would he have bought GJ if he had gotten him?

Someone posted that we bid after we bought GJ.

 

[WallyA]

Don't understand anyone who wants to buy more attackers, Unal and Robert on loan coming back, and Jesus being fit again will be like have a new player as well. How can anybody Justify bringing in another player (like Mbappe) without getting rid of another (say Aguero), the attack would have too many players.

Also, everybody is saying we need so many players, but in reality, we need a left back, a right back, and a goalkeeper and that's probably it.

A top starting left back with Clichy as a sub and a top starting right back with Maffeo as a sub is great.

Everybody says we need to buy more centre backs - Kompany, Otamendi, Stones are our starters, then looking at Denayer and Mangala (I have to imagine one of them can make it), then academy for the future means we don't need centre backs.

For the goalkeeper, I don't even know if we will buy anyone, I think Pep truly believes in Bravo and will give him time. Caballero will leave and Gunn will be 2nd choice, and that will probably be that.

Defensive midfielders - Gundogan, Dinho, Delph and Aleix will be here I'm pretty sure, but Toure and Fernando may be gone. This doesn't seem like a priority spot to me, and when Gundogan is fit he will be first choice.

Attacking midfielders - Kevin and Silva, Gundogan could go in both of these categories I guess. This is one spot I was initially afraid of and thought we should buy, but Zinchenko has looked class everytime I've seen him play (stupid PSV don't play him enough), and we have Foden and Diaz so buying any new player would limit these 3's growth. I just realized I forgot about Manu, but I think anybody going to NAC Breda has no future here unfortunately.

Forwards (strikers/wingers) - Sane/Sterling/Aguero/Roberts/Unal/Jesus/Nacho: 7 players in 3 spots (maybe 4 spots depending on formation). I can't see us buying anybody unless we sold/loaned atleast 2 players, 7 is already alot and I've assumed Nolito is gone and Unal will be here (conflicting rumors about his visa I don't believe anyone on this anymore).

Even if of those 7, we get rid of 2 and buy another, that's 6 attacking players, and doesn't give room for any academy players (mainly Sancho).


My final point, we don't want to fall down this trap of spending 150m+ every season, it's very dangerous because when we don't win everybody get's upset, academy players will lose faith in us because we don't give a shit about them, and even if Pep wins eventually everybody will say it was because he spent money.

Ideal scenario, buy a left back and right back (maybe a goalkeeper but I doubt Pep would) and that's it. The rest of the players should be loanees and academy players given the chance. When Pep wins stuff in this scenario I would personally be happier, because it means we gave all these young guys a chance and it paid off, I'm not in this for instant success.

 

[TotalFootballOne]

Someone posted that we bid after we bought GJ.

Ok, thank you.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Don't understand anyone who wants to buy more attackers, Unal and Robert on loan coming back, and Jesus being fit again will be like have a new player as well. How can anybody Justify bringing in another player (like Mbappe) without getting rid of another (say Aguero), the attack would have too many players.

Also, everybody is saying we need so many players, but in reality, we need a left back, a right back, and a goalkeeper and that's probably it.

A top starting left back with Clichy as a sub and a top starting right back with Maffeo as a sub is great.

Everybody says we need to buy more centre backs - Kompany, Otamendi, Stones are our starters, then looking at Denayer and Mangala (I have to imagine one of them can make it), then academy for the future means we don't need centre backs.

For the goalkeeper, I don't even know if we will buy anyone, I think Pep truly believes in Bravo and will give him time. Caballero will leave and Gunn will be 2nd choice, and that will probably be that.

Defensive midfielders - Gundogan, Dinho, Delph and Aleix will be here I'm pretty sure, but Toure and Fernando may be gone. This doesn't seem like a priority spot to me, and when Gundogan is fit he will be first choice.

Attacking midfielders - Kevin and Silva, Gundogan could go in both of these categories I guess. This is one spot I was initially afraid of and thought we should buy, but Zinchenko has looked class everytime I've seen him play (stupid PSV don't play him enough), and we have Foden and Diaz so buying any new player would limit these 3's growth. I just realized I forgot about Manu, but I think anybody going to NAC Breda has no future here unfortunately.

Forwards (strikers/wingers) - Sane/Sterling/Aguero/Roberts/Unal/Jesus/Nacho: 7 players in 3 spots (maybe 4 spots depending on formation). I can't see us buying anybody unless we sold/loaned atleast 2 players, 7 is already alot and I've assumed Nolito is gone and Unal will be here (conflicting rumors about his visa I don't believe anyone on this anymore).

Even if of those 7, we get rid of 2 and buy another, that's 6 attacking players, and doesn't give room for any academy players (mainly Sancho).


My final point, we don't want to fall down this trap of spending 150m+ every season, it's very dangerous because when we don't win everybody get's upset, academy players will lose faith in us because we don't give a shit about them, and even if Pep wins eventually everybody will say it was because he spent money.

Ideal scenario, buy a left back and right back (maybe a goalkeeper but I doubt Pep would) and that's it. The rest of the players should be loanees and academy players given the chance. When Pep wins stuff in this scenario I would personally be happier, because it means we gave all these young guys a chance and it paid off, I'm not in this for instant success.

Useful post. Agree about the 150, the attack and the youth. Think we still need 3 FBs and a CB and a keeper. Agree that I don't think Pep agrees. I also don't think we will get more than one or possibly two on anyone's "dream list" regardless; the rest will be plan B and C. I have learned over the years that the flights of fancy on this thread are best read as one would read science fiction, or a series of Trump tweets.

 

[WallyA]

Useful post. Agree about the 150, the attack and the youth. Think we still need 3 FBs and a CB and a keeper. Agree that I don't think Pep agrees. I also don't think we will get more than one or possibly two on anyone's "dream list" regardless; the rest will be plan B and C. I have learned over the years that the flights of fancy on this thread are best read as one would read science fiction, or a series of Trump tweets.

I am closely leaning towards 3 FBs as well (I assume you meant 2 LBs because I have more faith in Maffeo than Clichy), because Clichy might be a liability and it may be better spending a smaller amount for a 2nd choice LB, although Duhaney (a RB in the academy who has also played LB) looks very good and would be an interesting idea to have him as second choice. Klopp plays Trent Alexander Arnold as 2nd choice RB and he has looked good for Liverpool, contrary to belief these young guys can impress people.

 

[ADegenerate]

Don't understand anyone who wants to buy more attackers, Unal and Robert on loan coming back, and Jesus being fit again will be like have a new player as well. How can anybody Justify bringing in another player (like Mbappe) without getting rid of another (say Aguero), the attack would have too many players.

Also, everybody is saying we need so many players, but in reality, we need a left back, a right back, and a goalkeeper and that's probably it.

A top starting left back with Clichy as a sub and a top starting right back with Maffeo as a sub is great.

Everybody says we need to buy more centre backs - Kompany, Otamendi, Stones are our starters, then looking at Denayer and Mangala (I have to imagine one of them can make it), then academy for the future means we don't need centre backs.

For the goalkeeper, I don't even know if we will buy anyone, I think Pep truly believes in Bravo and will give him time. Caballero will leave and Gunn will be 2nd choice, and that will probably be that.

Defensive midfielders - Gundogan, Dinho, Delph and Aleix will be here I'm pretty sure, but Toure and Fernando may be gone. This doesn't seem like a priority spot to me, and when Gundogan is fit he will be first choice.

Attacking midfielders - Kevin and Silva, Gundogan could go in both of these categories I guess. This is one spot I was initially afraid of and thought we should buy, but Zinchenko has looked class everytime I've seen him play (stupid PSV don't play him enough), and we have Foden and Diaz so buying any new player would limit these 3's growth. I just realized I forgot about Manu, but I think anybody going to NAC Breda has no future here unfortunately.

Forwards (strikers/wingers) - Sane/Sterling/Aguero/Roberts/Unal/Jesus/Nacho: 7 players in 3 spots (maybe 4 spots depending on formation). I can't see us buying anybody unless we sold/loaned atleast 2 players, 7 is already alot and I've assumed Nolito is gone and Unal will be here (conflicting rumors about his visa I don't believe anyone on this anymore).

Even if of those 7, we get rid of 2 and buy another, that's 6 attacking players, and doesn't give room for any academy players (mainly Sancho).


My final point, we don't want to fall down this trap of spending 150m+ every season, it's very dangerous because when we don't win everybody get's upset, academy players will lose faith in us because we don't give a shit about them, and even if Pep wins eventually everybody will say it was because he spent money.

Ideal scenario, buy a left back and right back (maybe a goalkeeper but I doubt Pep would) and that's it. The rest of the players should be loanees and academy players given the chance. When Pep wins stuff in this scenario I would personally be happier, because it means we gave all these young guys a chance and it paid off, I'm not in this for instant success.

I see your logic Wally but I disagree pretty heavily in some areas.

Attack: Unal can't get a permit. Roberts should take Nolitos spot. You're correct on Mbappe/Aguero. The reason folks like myself are ok with Kun leaving is because he's not as ideal for our system like Sanchez is. I think it's a coin flip at best of aguero leaving. If he does I bet it's close to 100% we land Sanchez. If that happens then the squad improves.

Fullbacks: We agree.

Keeper: I'm fairly certain that pep is bringing in Ederson with Bravo for backup. There's been too much smoke. I'm not going to be that upset if we don't though.

DM: Its not a big priority but if we could bring in a young prodigy DM like Sane or GJ then I'll be a happy guy.

AM: Sadly they aren't playing as AM's they are playing deep. It wastes so much of KDB's skill set and brings out his deficiencies but I don't see Pep changing. I think the three of KDB, Gundogan, and Silva lacks goals and are entirely too similar. I see it as a negative to our squad overall but I wouldn't be surprised if we stood pat. Isco would be a fantastic signing though.

CB's: It's not at all a priority for me but the general consensus is that we'll bring another one in. It drives me up the wall that we'll spend 40 plus million on a new one and people are ready to give up halfway through the season. I loved Mangala (young and can improve) but him coming back isn't going to happen. If Pep wanted to give him a shot then we would have kept him after the Laporte deal fell through. Denayer might get another look but I don't think Pep really rates him and he won't stay here being so far down the pecking order.

Forwards: I touched on that a bit. Unal has no passport and I think Kelechi will be loaned or sold. I'm really hoping that it's a loan or sell with a buyback. (Just saw your point on the visa). If you're correct I still think he needs a season in a bigger league before we give him a chance (Dutch world beaters have flopped many times). He wouldn't get any chances either (much like Kelechi) I don't think.

Spending money isn't a problem but it can be a trap down the line. We're so far behind Chelsea and Tottenham that we can't sit back and wish for massive individual player improvements or on academy kids in Pep's second year after his disaster in the first. His legacy is on the line.

Regarding the academy...I can't see how they have any faith at all. I can't think of a single academy player that we've used in the entire 7 plus years I've been into football. Michah? Kelechi doesn't count to me. I was hoping Denayer would be the first and expected Garcia to get a chance but obviously that didn't happen.

Fullbacks are going to make a massive improvement and the rest we'll just have to wait and see. This year was sobering AF for many of us. We're levels and levels below the top teams and it's going to take longer than we hoped to catch up. Banking on the likes of Unal, zincenko, Garcia and maffeo seems like a risk that pep nor the club is willing to make at this time.

 

[WallyA]

I see your logic Wally but I disagree pretty heavily in some areas.

Attack: Unal can't get a permit. Roberts should take Nolitos spot. You're correct on Mbappe/Aguero. The reason folks like myself are ok with Kun leaving is because he's not as ideal for our system like Sanchez is. I think it's a coin flip at best of aguero leaving. If he does I bet it's close to 100% we land Sanchez. If that happens then the squad improves.

Fullbacks: We agree.

Keeper: I'm fairly certain that pep is bringing in Ederson with Bravo for backup. There's been too much smoke. I'm not going to be that upset if we don't though.

DM: Its not a big priority but if we could bring in a young prodigy DM like Sane or GJ then I'll be a happy guy.

AM: Sadly they aren't playing as AM's they are playing deep. It wastes so much of KDB's skill set and brings out his deficiencies but I don't see Pep changing. I think the three of KDB, Gundogan, and Silva lacks goals and are entirely too similar. I see it as a negative to our squad overall but I wouldn't be surprised if we stood pat. Isco would be a fantastic signing though.

CB's: It's not at all a priority for me but the general consensus is that we'll bring another one in. It drives me up the wall that we'll spend 40 plus million on a new one and people are ready to give up halfway through the season. I loved Mangala (young and can improve) but him coming back isn't going to happen. If Pep wanted to give him a shot then we would have kept him after the Laporte deal fell through. Denayer might get another look but I don't think Pep really rates him and he won't stay here being so far down the pecking order.

Forwards: I touched on that a bit. Unal has no passport and I think Kelechi will be loaned or sold. I'm really hoping that it's a loan or sell with a buyback. (Just saw your point on the visa). If you're correct I still think he needs a season in a bigger league before we give him a chance (Dutch world beaters have flopped many times). He wouldn't get any chances either (much like Kelechi) I don't think.

Spending money isn't a problem but it can be a trap down the line. We're so far behind Chelsea and Tottenham that we can't sit back and wish for massive individual player improvements or on academy kids in Pep's second year after his disaster in the first. His legacy is on the line.

Regarding the academy...I can't see how they have any faith at all. I can't think of a single academy player that we've used in the entire 7 plus years I've been into football. Michah? Kelechi doesn't count to me. I was hoping Denayer would be the first and expected Garcia to get a chance but obviously that didn't happen.

Fullbacks are going to make a massive improvement and the rest we'll just have to wait and see. This year was sobering AF for many of us. We're levels and levels below the top teams and it's going to take longer than we hoped to catch up. Banking on the likes of Unal, zincenko, Garcia and maffeo seems like a risk that pep nor the club is willing to make at this time.

I'm not really banking on the academy and loaners I'm simply arguing they are better as backups than spending money another player. It's not the colossal risk ppl think it is. Klopp gives Woodburn and Trent a chance because playing one youth player (your best) around your top players isn't as much of a liability as ppl think. They improve and shine in these circumstances as well.

I will also disagree that Peps legacy is tarnished, if we have to spend 200m in the transfer window, Pep wins the league and youth weren't given a chance, then people will say Pep won because of money. It's so obvious to me everyone would say that and they'd be right.

Our season has been hampered by massive injuries: kompany, Delph, gundogan, Jesus that makes us think our squad sucks, but looking back I think really the fullbacks just need to be addressed and maybe a goalkeeper (I don't think Pep will do this). The attack is young and will get better with time and truly doesn't need bolstering with what's coming in.

In regards to attacking midfielders, Silva is definitely one, can't be argued. Just because Pep plays with floating 8s doesn't change the kind of player he is, fast, agile, dribbler and can thread a through ball to our forwards (I honestly think Sterling can fit this mold but that is another discussion). Silva is also regularly the most forward of our 3 midfielders and becomes the second striker when we press in a 442. Kevin is an attacking midfielders but not agile or quick enough, he is kind of like Kroos. A more pure attacker like Silva is need imo but I already mentioned we have good backup in loanees and the academy to him.

 

[Dax777]

I know I'm the moron when I'm seemingly the only one who seems to like walker. Just another indicator of my ineptitude surely.

Nah, Walker is a good player.

 

[MadchesterCity]

----------------------Ederson
--------------Stones-----------Bonucci
------Walker--------Fabinho-------T. Hernández
------------De Bruyne-------Silva
-----Sterling-------------------------Sané
----------------------Mbappé

No Jesus?

 

[ADegenerate]

I'm not really banking on the academy and loaners I'm simply arguing they are better as backups than spending money another player. It's not the colossal risk ppl think it is. Klopp gives Woodburn and Trent a chance because playing one youth player (your best) around your top players isn't as much of a liability as ppl think. They improve and shine in these circumstances as well.

I will also disagree that Peps legacy is tarnished, if we have to spend 200m in the transfer window, Pep wins the league and youth weren't given a chance, then people will say Pep won because of money. It's so obvious to me everyone would say that and they'd be right.

Our season has been hampered by massive injuries: kompany, Delph, gundogan, Jesus that makes us think our squad sucks, but looking back I think really the fullbacks just need to be addressed and maybe a goalkeeper (I don't think Pep will do this). The attack is young and will get better with time and truly doesn't need bolstering with what's coming in.

In regards to attacking midfielders, Silva is definitely one, can't be argued. Just because Pep plays with floating 8s doesn't change the kind of player he is, fast, agile, dribbler and can thread a through ball to our forwards (I honestly think Sterling can fit this mold but that is another discussion). Silva is also regularly the most forward of our 3 midfielders and becomes the second striker when we press in a 442. Kevin is an attacking midfielders but not agile or quick enough, he is kind of like Kroos. A more pure attacker like Silva is need imo but I already mentioned we have good backup in loanees and the academy to him.

I think we're mostly on the same page with the academy. I'd like to see Maffeo, Garcia, and Roberts for sure. I'm not opposed to it at all. I've yet to see it happen. I'm all about the youth movement. I've been talking about that Young Boy Revolution sporadically on here. Good point in Klopp btw.

We're going to agree to disagree on the legacy. We'll forever be the big money club. The media would never gives us any credit anyway.

I'm going to disagree with you on the injuries standpoint. We were incredibly fortunate to not have injuries to our 4 most important players. Kun, Kdb, silva, and Raz. The jury to Kdb last year almost cost us the champions league. Had that happened this year....yeesh.

As far as the midfield goes. I still strongly stand by my point of view that something is off. I couldn't pinpoint what it is directly because I've never played and can't fully appreciate the intricate stuff. I'm relying on stats, my eyes, feel and thoundsands of games of high level FIFA.

A couple of things stood out to me in your Silva and Kevin comments...that Silva is regularly the most forward and becomes the second striker and that Kevin isn't as agile and is similar to kroos. That's what's happening and I hate everything about it. Why would you make your second striker someone who is a terrible finisher? Why send forward someone with no long shot and is as 1 footed as it comes? Then keep a two footed goal scorer with a long shot back?

Like I said...this is my 8th year. My first few years we're the glory years where we were banging in goals from everywhere. Dave was getting 10 plus, Yaya hit 20, nasri and Milner were getting 5 to 10. Now we're getting 6 total.

My hunch is that Silva is a master in a midfield 3/4 and doesn't add enough in a 2. He's pretty one dimensional and lacks dynamism. We need someone like Coutinho.

Am I just completely ignorant here? He retains possession well, has a great passing %, and dribbles his way into the box at times but he's never going to use skill moves and earn a penalty or beat a man and curl one in. I'm struggling to remember that many goals where we dribbled around and created something out of nothing vs a parked bus outside of the GJ winner.