General Election June 8th

[SWP's back]

See my answer to previous

Yeah it's wrong.

 

[SWP's back]

How else do large organizations get away with it then ?

Because international corporate tax law is so full of loop holes as to be non existent. Without a worldwide agreement then no single government can actually address the problem.

 

[SWP's back]

On these threads I don't often agree with you but you're right he's got this slighty wrong.

capitalism is an economic system that can influence an ideology but not specifically part of it, some facist states throughout industry have allowed capitalism and private ownership of business to be used , as long as it is for the betterment of the state.

But facism is an ideology of how a nation should be, not an economic system.

Umfortunately in the last 30 years both facist and marxist/trotskyite have become the common way to wrongly slag off the left or the right wing respectively, while not recognocnisobg the difference between conservatism, socialism, libralism, marxism, facism, etc all different ideologies.

where as you then have different economic systems, capitalism, mercantism(thunk spelt right, sydicalism, socialist economic system, communism (an ideology linked directly to ecomonic systems), facist socialisation, never mind all the modern offshoots to boot.

A capitalist can be a facist but they are not intertwined that all capitalist are, ideologically some tories lean to a far right mindset as some labour lean to a far left.


Tories are still bad for the nation and it's people though

Good post although I respectfully disagree with the last sentence.

 

[cibaman]

The 26% rate suggested would still be the lowest in the G7.
But pray tell where you suggest the money should come from to fund our failing public services?

By a sensible industrial strategy that results in more tax revenue being generated at lower tax rates?

The problem with increasing the tax rate to 26% isnt that 26% is such a draconian rate. The problem is that Labour are signaling that, in post Brexit Britain, business (plus the wealthy and not so wealthy) will be expected to pick up whatever shortfall arises from the effects of Brexit and Labour's spending plans. Its painting business as a whole as a bunch of tax dodging Philip Green's who fall into the category of "fair game". Why would anyone believe that 26% would be the long term rate? Surely the increase would be just the beginning?

I think you can make an argument that corporation tax rates have fallen too far under the tories. But to jack them back up now, coinciding with Brexit, would be perverse.

 

[Vic]

....

Before Labour made the decision, Bank Holidays were optional to work (with double pay), Labour made it legal so that we have to work them and double pay or time and a half was now only optional by the employer, not mandatory.

Before Labour introduced the Minimum Wage, my wage was higher. After it virtually every company reduced the hourly rate.....

I'm baffled. What decision? Most of this is in the Employment Rights Act 1996 (Tory Government) with Labour amending it to allow employees to request flexible working. You'll have to cite this supposed Labour change in the law to force you to work bank holidays. It sounds like you exchanged 4 bank holidays for 5 days extra annual leave.

And it is just not true that every company reduced wages to the minimum wage. Of course that's why the CBI opposed it.

I'm still not sure how you can be working 40 hours a week and only be on £9300 a year (and not consider yourself poor).

 

[bronco]

Because international corporate tax law is so full of loop holes as to be non existent. Without a worldwide agreement then no single government can actually address the problem.

Not true of course but thanks for trying, you sound like the sort who thinks someone who nicks a bottle of wine from Tesco should be locked yet you are happy to shrug your shoulders when corporations and individuals dodge billions in tax ? Strange days indeed

 

[bronco]

On these threads I don't often agree with you but you're right he's got this slighty wrong.

capitalism is an economic system that can influence an ideology but not specifically part of it, some facist states throughout industry have allowed capitalism and private ownership of business to be used , as long as it is for the betterment of the state.

But facism is an ideology of how a nation should be, not an economic system.

Umfortunately in the last 30 years both facist and marxist/trotskyite have become the common way to wrongly slag off the left or the right wing respectively, while not recognocnisobg the difference between conservatism, socialism, libralism, marxism, facism, etc all different ideologies.

where as you then have different economic systems, capitalism, mercantism(thunk spelt right, sydicalism, socialist economic system, communism (an ideology linked directly to ecomonic systems), facist socialisation, never mind all the modern offshoots to boot.

A capitalist can be a facist but they are not intertwined that all capitalist are, ideologically some tories lean to a far right mindset as some labour lean to a far left.


Tories are still bad for the nation and it's people though

Exactly my point earlier - communists can claim to be socialists yet not all socialists are communists , by the same token you can link fascism with capitalism - hitler for instance threw the banks out of Germany and set up his own capitalist structure - true or false ?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

We also have an estimated 120,000 homeless kids on our streets.
We also have a 3rd of children now believed to be going to school on an empty stomach, without breakfast.

You see MB what you talk about is absolute poverty which is the likes of no shelter, dirty drinking water, etc.

What we talk of in the UK is poverty and that is poverty created by the right wing governments from the past. Including "New Labour"

I think it is terrible that kids live in difficult conditions but like all socialists you blame society and government. Why
? what about the parents who live in poverty don't work and continue to have kids. Is it not partly their fault as well, or is everything wrong in society merely the governments fault?

 

[Cheesy]

A rise of 7% in Corporation Tax and an increase in the minimum wage will fuck over small business owners like me. Having worked my arse off for several years I'm finally making a profit and thinking of taking on my first employee, however if Labour get in I will have to put any decisions about business growth off for some time.

It sometimes seems to me that Labour & their supporters forget that it's not only multi-million pound Companies who pay Corporation Tax.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not true of course but thanks for trying, you sound like the sort who thinks someone who nicks a bottle of wine from Tesco should be locked yet you are happy to shrug your shoulders when corporations and individuals dodge billions in tax ? Strange days indeed

Hes actually right. A couple of years ago i read an article that said only three out of the 100 ftse 100 companies paid their corporation tax at the rate hmrc wanted. The rest used off shore accounting and tax havens with most paying nothing at all. Google Amazon Starbucks Primark Apple Facebook etc are the recently highlighted big businesse doing it but in fact nearly all our suposed own uk registered companies are also doing it. There is very little Corbyn or May could actually do aside from actually lowering corporation tax for very big business thus attracting some back to these shores and increasing the tax take.

 

[SWP's back]

Not true of course but thanks for trying, you sound like the sort who thinks someone who nicks a bottle of wine from Tesco should be locked yet you are happy to shrug your shoulders when corporations and individuals dodge billions in tax ? Strange days indeed

Of course it's true and I'm not going to take much notice of someone that thinks fascists use a capitalist ideology.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

A rise of 7% in Corporation Tax and an increase in the minimum wage will fuck over small business owners like me. Having worked my arse off for several years I'm finally making a profit and thinking of taking on my first employee, however if Labour get in I will have to put any decisions about business growth off for some time.

Good for you. I wouldn't put that employee off mate. You have no worries.

 

[SWP's back]

Exactly my point earlier - communists can claim to be socialists yet not all socialists are communists , by the same token you can link fascism with capitalism - hitler for instance threw the banks out of Germany and set up his own capitalist structure - true or false ?

False. Hitler implemented Keynesian economics and huge infrastructure projects. It was big state and massive public spending. The exact opposite of small state laissez-faire capitalist ideology.

From a economics point of view he was very socialist and incredibly successful.

If he'd managed to stay away from war and genocide then he'd have likely have gone down as one of the most successful leaders of the 20th Century whilst using left of centre economics.

 

[Cheesy]

Good for you. I wouldn't put that employee off mate. You have no worries.

I wish I didn't have any worries mate :-)

When starting a business from scratch those first 4-5 years are like walking a tightrope. You feel as though the slightest thing could ruin you.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I wish I didn't have any worries mate :-)

When starting a business from scratch those first 4-5 years are like walking a tightrope. You feel as though the slightest thing could ruin you.

Keep going it's people like you that make a real difference in this country.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

You're blaming the system of capitalism for 'poverty'? And who is in poverty? Clean water, warm food, shelter and beds to rest. We in this country have no idea what true poverty is. Capitalism is simply the fairest method for allowing the individual the opportunity to help themselves make a better life for themselves, not dependent on anyone else. The harder you work, the greater the reward. That is the essence of capitalism, if businesses or governments are screwing over workers it's the business at fault, not the system itself. But then we have the democratic process to remove governments that are not up to standard or keeping businesses that fail to adhere to fair rules correctly.

Apparently, according to these same statistics, me being on £9,300 a year is a 'poverty wage'. I'm living in poverty because I cannot afford to go abroad on holiday, or own a car or my own home? Really? I can still enjoy the same hobbies, i'm fit and healthy, eat good nutritional food, have clean water to drink and bathe in and I don't feel I have any serious money worries, but i'm still considered to be in poverty. Well, if someone wants to hand me some free money...

If you can tell me how a poor person can work to get themselves out of poverty on another system besides capitalism, i'd love to hear it.

Mate I think your salary is less than the minimum wage? Full time people on minimum wage I thought earned around 13k a year.

 

[cibaman]

Paul Johnson from the IFS has said that it might not be possible to "cost" Labour's manifesto. The changes to tax, spending and borrowing are on such a scale that they would fundamentally change the economy. Some might consider that to be a good thing but it would represent a huge step into the unknown.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

A rise of 7% in Corporation Tax and an increase in the minimum wage will fuck over small business owners like me. Having worked my arse off for several years I'm finally making a profit and thinking of taking on my first employee, however if Labour get in I will have to put any decisions about business growth off for some time.

It sometimes seems to me that Labour & their supporters forget that it's not only multi-million pound Companies who pay Corporation Tax.

Ive still not forgiven Brown for cutting corporation tax for big buiness while raising it for small ones at the same time and claiming credit for his tax cutting measures.

 

[cibaman]

Hes actually right. A couple of years ago i read an article that said only three out of the 100 ftse 100 companies paid their corporation tax at the rate hmrc wanted. The rest used off shore accounting and tax havens with most paying nothing at all. Google Amazon Starbucks Primark Apple Facebook etc are the recently highlighted big businesse doing it but in fact nearly all our suposed own uk registered companies are also doing it. There is very little Corbyn or May could actually do aside from actually lowering corporation tax for very big business thus attracting some back to these shores and increasing the tax take.

There's no such thing as a rate that HMRC want. During every budget statement the Chancellor announces a whole raft of specific taxes and allowances that means that tax rates will vary from sector to sector, business to business. That's why its so difficult to differentiate between "acceptable" tax avoidance (taking advantage of tax incentives deliberately put in place by the government) and aggressive tax avoidance (exploiting loopholes).

 

[bronco]

Of course it's true and I'm not going to take much notice of someone that thinks fascists use a capitalist ideology.

But I didn't actually say that did I ?