General Election June 8th

[blue cigar]

Good PR can dupe many people....

 

[Claytop]

Labour pledging £37bn over the next 5 years, by unsurprisingly raising taxes and borrowing money, think that's about 5 or 6 things Corporation Tax is funding.

Laughable, turning into what lib dems used to do and promise stuff they know they won't have to deliver.

 

[Vic]

The last 40+ years have been a journey characterised by the extreme goodwill being shown to the UK by the EU, whilst we have behaved like a spoilt brat and never had the grace to show the gratitude that is clearly the EU's due.

Ah, at last you get it!

 

[KenTheLandlord]

If you must reply to my posts at least make it relevant. Talking to scum isn't quite the same as sucking really really hard on their cocks.

You learn that from Theresa?

 

[SWP's back]

I wasn't referring to your personal finances rather the generality of your statement that investments and pensions would fare better in the short to medium term in the event of a remain vote.
Why is that?

Markets hate uncertainty.

It's fairly well known.

 

[SWP's back]

Or trying to broker a peace deal? What a helmet! Do try and think for yourself now and then old chap.

Yeah. Course he was. Without being asked. From the back benches. Of the opposition.

"Oh no officer I wasn't here buying drugs from this dealer. I'm conducting my own undercover sting operation.."

 

[Vic]

Oh dear Fumble - a bit more digging and it seems your desperation is again blinkering you and preventing you from being capable of reading what is actually posted before you jump in with your counters. You really ought to try engaging brain before typing - you will certainly need to do that when you get around to answering the negotiation question I posed to you.

I posted that it seems that there is a poll that shows that there is an important development in understanding people's views on Brexit and that there are now 3 ways their views have been counted.

You counter with another poll that is a hindsight opinion of a binary choice of whether we made the right decision or not. Of course the vast majority of those that voted Remain are likely to hold that view still and vote wrong and it should not be surprising in these turbulent times that some others may now have reservations so might - when faced with a binary choice - vote that it was wrong.

So yes, I can fully understand the findings of the poll you posted.

But here is the rub, like so many of your posts it seems, it has very little relevance to the point the other poster, in this case me, was making.

Your poll was a hindsight binary choice. The one to which I was referring was not a binary choice but went to a deeper level and introduced a 3rd category of voter - there is a clue - I included it in my post and repeat it here for you again:

45% - Hard Leavers - those backing what is described as a Hard Brexit (stupid term that)

23% - RE-Leavers - Remain voters that now want Leave to happen (probably a case of can we just get it done please - wish there were more like that on here)

22% - Remainers - those that still continue to oppose leaving the EU

The worrying thing that I think you perhaps should be taking away from this is that it would suggest that of the 45% of people that in an hindsight vote on a binary choice think that we are wrong to be leaving - about half of them though are reconciled to the fact that we are in fact leaving and therefore just want us to get on with it. It perhaps follows that if they are so reconciled that in the forthcoming election, unless they are 'dyed in the wool' Labour, Green or LibDem voters they may opt for May this time around on the basis that they think that - given that they are reconciled to the fact that we are leaving - she will get the best deal.

Of course I am not surprised that you prefer to take comfort from the hindsight poll because that is just more of you living in the pre-23/06 world and not being able to accept the Leave outcome - it does seem though that the number of Japanese snipers are on the decline.

Each to their own, personally I like to live in the here and now and plan for the future

Anyway, I was just sharing information - you should not be so touchy - it cannot be good for you

Perhaps it follows that had the vote been narrowly the other way, half of those who voted Leave would now be saying let's get on with being better and more enthusiastic members of the EU.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Perhaps it follows that had the vote been narrowly the other way, half of those who voted Leave would now be saying let's get on with being better and more enthusiastic members of the EU.

The levels of hypocrisy in relation to Brexit by the most militant on each side of the debate is utterly comical. It is because they have become too consumed by the subject matter. It kills off all sense of perspective and self-awareness in them.

 

[mcfc1632]

Perhaps it follows that had the vote been narrowly the other way, half of those who voted Leave would now be saying let's get on with being better and more enthusiastic members of the EU.

That's a given surely - well at least insomuch as they would be getting on with it.

Those not so enamoured with the EU have been used to sucking it up and getting on with life for decades. They might not have become overnight fans but they would be pragmatic and want what is best for the UK based on the hand dealt.

This spoilt brat - kick the toys over and scream and scream until being sick attitude is seemingly a recent phenomena, resulting it seems from the psyche and strength of character of some diehard Remainers.

At least, as this poll would indicate it would seem that Remainers are in general becoming as pragmatic as the those of us that have been euro sceptic. There was always a small percentage of diehard anti-Europeans that could not let it go - the shoe is on the other foot now with the number of pro-EU voters that are able to 'get over it' increasing significantly and those that cannot 'let it go' becoming the ever-increasing minority.

I posted the information because:

a) It is an interesting development and

b) If you read some of the stuff on here from some diehard Remainers you could be forgiven for thinking that the entire country was paralysed by angst and in mourning at what is now recognised by the vast majority as having been a travesty of justice - rather than a democratic process.

 

[ColinBellsjockstrap]

No comment needed.

 

[blue cigar]

Yeah. Course he was. Without being asked. From the back benches. Of the opposition.

"Oh no officer I wasn't here buying drugs from this dealer. I'm conducting my own undercover sting operation.."

Oh dear, another misinformed individual. So, one was openly engaging with the ira to broker a peaceful solution, you know, stop soldiers being blown up and that kind of thing. Meanwhile the leader who said " we dont negotiate with terrorists.." was doing exactly that, the same as the heath and major governments whilst convincing the adoring masses of their tough stance...I think they call it good PR? Certainly good enough for a few on here.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No comment needed.

The thing with Corbyn is, nothing has changed, he will never condemn proscribed terrorists, whenever
challenged about this, or Hamas, other than vague platitudes about 'all aggression', including the British army
etc.

 

[SWP's back]

Oh dear, another misinformed individual. So, one was openly engaging with the ira to broker a peaceful solution, you know, stop soldiers being blown up and that kind of thing. Meanwhile the leader who said " we dont negotiate with terrorists.." was doing exactly that, the same as the heath and major governments whilst convincing the adoring masses of their tough stance...I think they call it good PR? Certainly good enough for a few on here.

I don't believe for a second Corbyn was doing that. He was simply a sympathiser for their cause as the cutting shows.

 

[cibaman]

Oh dear, another misinformed individual. So, one was openly engaging with the ira to broker a peaceful solution, you know, stop soldiers being blown up and that kind of thing. Meanwhile the leader who said " we dont negotiate with terrorists.." was doing exactly that, the same as the heath and major governments whilst convincing the adoring masses of their tough stance...I think they call it good PR? Certainly good enough for a few on here.

Did he ever openly engage with any unionists? He obviously had a close relationship with the IRA. A serious peacemaker would surely have used that to open up discussions with the unionists, try to establish some common ground. Is it possible to broker a peaceful solution if only speaking to one side?

 

[Gelsons Dad]

So it looks like Labour's modest raise in income tax really means a lower threshold for 45% probably the 80k figure they have mentioned plus a 50% rate for higher earners.

Tax and Spend. As always.
The good thing about that policy is it brings down the average national wage and therefore the number of people "living in poverty".

Solidarity Commrade.

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh! This is fun...

And I replied thus....

Of course.

YouGov poll 10th May.

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU?

Wrong 45%

Right 44%

Don't know 11%

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...n-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

PS: Any one willing to bet which way the polls are going to go on this over the next year or so?

So a number of other places reporting on this new poll today - the one that I mentioned gives a further breakdown which means that 'diehard Remainer' is down to just over one fifth. Headlines such as:

• New opinion polling has revealed a third group within the 52-48 Brexit divide

• YouGov found 23% of people who backed the EU want the referendum respected

• It means barely one in five are opposed to the result and want Brexit blocked

Do you still think that I was making it up?

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

I can't see May allowing her any leverage in the Brexit talks, any decision Scotland makes as a whole will be decided after the final deal IF there is another independence referendum. The only way Labour are going to effectively challenge the Tory juggernaut is to swallow up SNP seats and that isn't going to happen. With that in mind Brexit was a UK wide vote and the negotiations will be done by Tories.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39920799

 

[Metal Biker]

So it looks like Labour's modest raise in income tax really means a lower threshold for 45% probably the 80k figure they have mentioned plus a 50% rate for higher earners.

Tax and Spend. As always.
The good thing about that policy is it brings down the average national wage and therefore the number of people "living in poverty".

Solidarity Commrade.

Sounds like Labour's modus operandi

 

[inbetween]

So a number of other places reporting on this new poll today - the one that I mentioned gives a further breakdown which means that 'diehard Remainer' is down to just over one fifth. Headlines such as:

• New opinion polling has revealed a third group within the 52-48 Brexit divide

• YouGov found 23% of people who backed the EU want the referendum respected

• It means barely one in five are opposed to the result and want Brexit blocked

Do you still think that I was making it up?

I was a remainer and I am in that third group because I completely agree we have to leave and if that means a hard brexit then so be it. I have warmed to the idea of being out, it closes opportunities yes but it will potentially open exciting new ones. Working in defence we have more or less drained European opportunities and we have to start looking elsewhere but it is incredibly difficult to do so currently. The problem is we have to work in ridiculously unfavourable trading conditions compared with the US and their massive defence industry who dominate around the world. The reason why is the US has an export regulatory system that suits the US and it does not have to account for the wishes of many other countries whom it also competes with.

Go on the WTO website and check how many trade disputes the US raises, there are hundreds and have a look how many we have raised, 0. We are not allowed nor able to stand up for UK business and trade abroad because of EU membership. Obviously the EU stands for us but they will do that in the interests of everyone, not us.

The big power brokers in our industry are certainly not in Europe although collaboration has been a big thing but there is no reason that cannot continue. Being able to sign deals and make legislation which favours the UK will represent a massive competitive advantage. Even in the internal market as of now if anyone started a defence company in a European country they are able to trade on equal terms with a UK company and that means potentially work for us and our people ends up going elsewhere.

What many don't realize is that if the EU was open to reform and did actually reform we would be knocking on the door not closing it and there is still nothing to stop that in the far future. I can't see that ever happening though which is why we just need to get on with leaving and start pursuing new opportunities for the better of the UK.

 

[stonerblue]

I was a remainer and I am in that third group because I completely agree we have to leave and if that means a hard brexit then so be it. I have warmed to the idea of being out, it closes opportunities yes but it will potentially open exciting new ones. Working in defence we have more or less drained European opportunities and we have to start looking elsewhere but it is incredibly difficult to do so currently. The problem is we have to work in ridiculously unfavourable trading conditions compared with the US and their massive defence industry who dominate around the world. The reason why is the US has an export regulatory system that suits the US and it does not have to account for the wishes of many other countries whom it also competes with.

Go on the WTO website and check how many trade disputes the US raises, there are hundreds and have a look how many we have raised, 0. We are not allowed nor able to stand up for UK business and trade abroad because of EU membership. Obviously the EU stands for us but they will do that in the interests of everyone, not us.

The big power brokers in our industry are certainly not in Europe although collaboration has been a big thing but there is no reason that cannot continue. Being able to sign deals and make legislation which favours the UK will represent a massive competitive advantage. Even in the internal market as of now if anyone started a defence company in a European country they are able to trade on equal terms with a UK company and that means potentially work for us and our people ends up going elsewhere.

What many don't realize is that if the EU was open to reform and did actually reform we would be knocking on the door not closing it and there is still nothing to stop that in the far future. I can't see that ever happening though which is why we just need to get on with leaving and start pursuing new opportunities for the better of the UK.

When you say 'defence' do you mean the arms trade?