General Election June 8th

[vonkeynotvenky]

May has tried to focus the theme and made it an election about her v corbyn, not labour v tory, very presidential style.
The debate (or lack of one) is a minor thing that many countries do now, and may is scared of them as she's not good under scrutiny and pressure, she needs a comtroled enviromemt.

The MSM are scutinising labours pledges and where the money is coming from (which they have answered) while not questioning how the tories are gonna raisie money they are pledging, which dallon being a clown slipped up on today admitting this housing pledge is from existing money, so will be cut from somewhere else.

The BBC are reporting the Tory council house plan as not new money, again I haven't seen the bias. Are you saying the Tories promises aren't being questioned and scrutinised because the news I read questions them all the time.
How many times have the opposition complained that May wasn't elected? Of course it's about her and her mandate to push forward and naturally it's about one leader and the other which the country will decide.

 

[mcfc1632]

Care to expand on that last paragraph? (In your own time of course).

Hmmmm

Would I care to expand on:

"If I was selfish, or a faux socialist, and only thought of what is best for my own investments and pensions over the short - medium term I would support Remaining"

I was not meaning it to be a profound statement, I meant nothing more 'deep' than:

"If I was selfish" - it follows that I do not think that I am particularly - which I am implying is evidenced by my vote

"or a faux socialist" - it follows that I do not think that I am

"and only thought of what is best for my own investments and pensions over the short - medium term I would support Remaining" I am suggesting that I do not...........

you obviously want to pick up on something - but I was not intending anything profound

 

[Len Rum]

how so???

that is a version of something that I have said many times

I do not intend to put on a forum the details of my personal financial circumstances - but the fact that I can recognise that a decision to have Remained would, in my assessment, have been financially better for me in the short to medium term - and yet I still voted to Leave - surely only demonstrates that I have the capability to think long term and put the future of my country and my family ahead of my personal short-tem gain

I wasn't referring to your personal finances rather the generality of your statement that investments and pensions would fare better in the short to medium term in the event of a remain vote.
Why is that?

 

[urban genie]

The BBC are reporting the Tory council house plan as not new money, again I haven't seen the bias. Are you saying the Tories promises aren't being questioned and scrutinised because the news I read questions them all the time.
How many times have the opposition complained that May wasn't elected? Of course it's about her and her mandate to push forward and naturally it's about one leader and the other which the country will decide.

they didn'y press fallon on the cost of tge housing plan, but the idiot slipped up and said they would use existing money anyway instead of just replying strong and stable economy blah blah like the rest have, fallon is as a useless fucker on tv as abbot is for labour, probably why hammond hasn't been seen either as he's another clown when interviewed.

Really it's a sad state of our politics that so many MP's are crap on both sides.

Our democracy is built on parliamentry party politics not solely the leader, sadly we have more and more let it become about person over policy.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Really it's a sad state of our polotics that so many MP's are crap on both sides.

You're not going to get an argument from me on this point, it's dreadful just how inept and self serving many politicians are in todays political arena. Hanging your hat has never been so difficult.

 

[mcfc1632]

I wasn't referring to your personal finances rather the generality of your statement that investments and pensions would fare better in the short to medium term in the event of a remain vote.
Why is that?

Simples - because of the nature of the investments that I hold that constitute my pension(s)

I mentioned: "If I was selfish, or a faux socialist, and only thought of what is best for my own investments and pensions over the short - medium term I would support Remaining."

So I was clearly speaking about - my own investments and pensions - and there was not, as you suggest any "........... generality of your statement that investments and pensions would fare better in the short to medium term in the event of a remain vote."

I assessed pre-23/06 that they would suffer in the short-medium term (actually maybe the long-term as well) by a leave vote.

The actuality since 23/06 has proven my assessment to have been completely accurate and all the forecasts that I can obtain with regard to 'the nature of the investments that I hold....' indicate that I will be right into the future as well

Yet, I had still had the character to vote with my convictions - and I am sure that I personally swayed a good number of people that were unsure towards leave as well

So, can you explain how you hold the view that I have been caught with my pants down?

 

[The perfect fumble]

@ TPF

Another substance-free rant

I have the sense - and standards - to be clear when I am posting personal opinions - you just bang on as if you think that we should all consider you to be some type of an oracle.

"Don't kid yourself you voted for your daughters future, you gambled and your bluff carried the day but now the consequences kick in. Future generations will scarcely believe this folly." - Only in your opinion - not mine obviously - and guess what? I feel that my opinion is far more credible than yours - mainly because - in my opinion - it is derived from having been carefully thought through by someone capable of thinking outside their narrow prejudices

And the rest of your post is just a personal attack - I must get under your shallow skin.

Try making a real response - try some substance rather than ranting and deal with the question I put in my post:

".................why not try entering into a debate with me on the Labour 'policy' on Brexit? You could start by answering point 3 of my post on page 184 and I will take it from there - we will all be able to see just how much 'substance' you actually have"

Let the board see if hidden under the heavy cover of all your 'bluster', there is really the capability to think, reason and debate

Or, if you feel more comfortable - just hurl a few more insults

As for:

"I've no idea how old you are but it may require the older generation..........." If you had been paying attention in previous posts you would know that I am just a bit younger than you and have spent all my formative years in Eccles and Lower Broughton

We get it.

We know you don't have the courage to take ownership of what you've done.

 

[mcfc1632]

We get it.

We know you don't have the courage to take ownership for what you've done.

My word you get more and more desperate - so what does this statement even mean????

I cannot really see any relevance to the post of mine you have quoted. Are you suggesting that I am not having the courage to take ownership for the 23/06 vote being to Leave the EU??? That is the only relevance I can apply to your post - and only then if I really try to be kind to you.

If that is the case - well I thank you but I think that it would be a bit arrogant of me to try to take the credit for that. I can take credit for my vote - my wife's and her parents. My dad (lives in Shaw) was already committed to voting Leave. There was a guy in Halfords that was undecided and I persuaded him - and quite a few others that I met when out and about - but I do not think that I can take more credit than about 15 votes. That said - I would certainly be willing (have the courage) to take ownership for 'doing my bit'.

Anyway - you seem to have had a problem finding that post on page 184. It is your chance to actually debate and provide some substance. It is your opportunity to show how you would so effectively manage the negotiations that you seem to consider yourself to be oh so knowledgeable about - as a reminder you were invited to explain the Labour position on Brexit. To help, I will summarise for you.

Imagine the scenario, you are in the role of newly elected PM Jeremy Corbyn and you are sitting down with Michael Barnier and say:

1. Right - as you know I have committed that I am not going to take the UK out of the EU without a trade deal - lets get on with that

2. Barnier says - you are aware that the EU's position is that we are not even going to start any discussions on a trade agreement until you have settle the exit bill to our satisfaction and we have calculated it to be - £50bn - no forget that £100bn, but that might still increase, we will keep you updated.

3. So TPF - you then say....................???

Lets try it like Chess - you have a turn and I will have a turn - let's see you get anything from this negotiation, other than:

a) the UK paying a ludicrous bill - thereby through vanity badly damaging the UK's economy

b) The UK eventually withdrawing the A50 notice and the UK staying in the EU on much reduced term- thereby reneging on the 'commitment' that Labour will respect (yeah really) the referendum decision.

You have had a lot to say - try showing that you can actually do something other than throw out snide remarks. To avoid distracting this thread - it would be best if you post what will undoubtedly be highly informative and valuable wisdom on the A50 thread.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The music that they constantly play says nothing to me about my life.

 

[The perfect fumble]

 

[Alex - Not City Matters]

But according to @vonkeynotvenky there's equal MSM coverage of both...

 

[hilts]

Was he wearing a balaclava?

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

But according to @vonkeynotvenky there's equal MSM coverage of both...

I wouldn't say it was equal if I was pushed for an answer I would say that the MSM favour the "Progressive" side of politics not the right centre.

 

[mcfc1632]

I just posted this on the A50 thread - but it is important for the GE as well. Seems to indicate that May was right to call the GE.

I have read that there is a poll published in the FT today that shows that the population are coming to terms with Brexit and that the 48% has dropped to 22%. It is behind a Pay wall so I have not read it directly - but apparently the key facts are:

45% - Hard Leavers - those backing what is described as a Hard Brexit (stupid term that)

23% - RE-Leavers -Remain voters that now want Leave to happen (probably a case of can we just get it done please - wish there were more like that on here)

22% - Remainers - those that still continue to oppose leaving the EU

Just putting it out there

 

[The perfect fumble]

I just posted this on the A50 thread - but it is important for the GE as well. Seems to indicate that May was right to call the GE.

I have read that there is a poll published in the FT today that shows that the population are coming to terms with Brexit and that the 48% has dropped to 22%. It is behind a Pay wall so I have not read it directly - but apparently the key facts are:

45% - Hard Leavers - those backing what is described as a Hard Brexit (stupid term that)

23% - RE-Leavers -Remain voters that now want Leave to happen (probably a case of can we just get it done please - wish there were more like that on here)

22% - Remainers - those that still continue to oppose leaving the EU

Just putting it out there

Oh! This is fun...

And I replied thus....

Of course.

YouGov poll 10th May.

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU?

Wrong 45%

Right 44%

Don't know 11%

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...n-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

PS: Any one willing to bet which way the polls are going to go on this over the next year or so?

 

[blue cigar]

Was he wearing a balaclava?

You do realise that the heath govt in 1972, thatcher govt in 81 and major govt in 93 conducted covert negotiations with the ira? Of course not, it wasnt in the daily mail!
Strong and stable....

 

[hilts]

You do realise that the heath govt in 1972, thatcher govt in 81 and major govt in 93 conducted covert negotiations with the ira? Of course not, it wasnt in the daily mail!
Strong and stable....

If you must reply to my posts at least make it relevant. Talking to scum isn't quite the same as sucking really really hard on their cocks.

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh! This is fun...

And I replied thus....

Of course.

YouGov poll 10th May.

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU?

Wrong 45%

Right 44%

Don't know 11%

http://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...n-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

PS: Any one willing to bet which way the polls are going to go on this over the next year or so?

To which I replied................

Strange response that??

By saying 'Of course' - are you suggesting that I am being untruthful?

Just google newsnow brexit and you will see it on the 1st page

As I said - I was just putting it out there - nothing more - nothing less

You seem a bit touchy

Anyway - how you getting on answering that question I put to you earlier?

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh dear Fumble - a bit more digging and it seems your desperation is again blinkering you and preventing you from being capable of reading what is actually posted before you jump in with your counters. You really ought to try engaging brain before typing - you will certainly need to do that when you get around to answering the negotiation question I posed to you.

I posted that it seems that there is a poll that shows that there is an important development in understanding people's views on Brexit and that there are now 3 ways their views have been counted.

You counter with another poll that is a hindsight opinion of a binary choice of whether we made the right decision or not. Of course the vast majority of those that voted Remain are likely to hold that view still and vote wrong and it should not be surprising in these turbulent times that some others may now have reservations so might - when faced with a binary choice - vote that it was wrong.

So yes, I can fully understand the findings of the poll you posted.

But here is the rub, like so many of your posts it seems, it has very little relevance to the point the other poster, in this case me, was making.

Your poll was a hindsight binary choice. The one to which I was referring was not a binary choice but went to a deeper level and introduced a 3rd category of voter - there is a clue - I included it in my post and repeat it here for you again:

45% - Hard Leavers - those backing what is described as a Hard Brexit (stupid term that)

23% - RE-Leavers - Remain voters that now want Leave to happen (probably a case of can we just get it done please - wish there were more like that on here)

22% - Remainers - those that still continue to oppose leaving the EU

The worrying thing that I think you perhaps should be taking away from this is that it would suggest that of the 45% of people that in an hindsight vote on a binary choice think that we are wrong to be leaving - about half of them though are reconciled to the fact that we are in fact leaving and therefore just want us to get on with it. It perhaps follows that if they are so reconciled that in the forthcoming election, unless they are 'dyed in the wool' Labour, Green or LibDem voters they may opt for May this time around on the basis that they think that - given that they are reconciled to the fact that we are leaving - she will get the best deal.

Of course I am not surprised that you prefer to take comfort from the hindsight poll because that is just more of you living in the pre-23/06 world and not being able to accept the Leave outcome - it does seem though that the number of Japanese snipers are on the decline.

Each to their own, personally I like to live in the here and now and plan for the future

Anyway, I was just sharing information - you should not be so touchy - it cannot be good for you

 

[blue cigar]

If you must reply to my posts at least make it relevant. Talking to scum isn't quite the same as sucking really really hard on their cocks.

Or trying to broker a peace deal? What a helmet! Do try and think for yourself now and then old chap.