Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

vonkeynotvenky said:
I haven't seen one post suggesting this
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I'm not in the mood for conflict or games of oneupmanship so I won't link anything but if you look hard enough you will find them.

As the dust settles, the regular needless shit slinging has picked up again. Labelling people as xenophobic, racist, liberal lefties etc is not doing anyone any favours in a time when galvanisation is desperately needed. As hard as it might be to admit for some, none of us have the answers right now and, as you say, discussion is needed, not finger pointing and agenda pushing.
 
vonkeynotvenky said:
What people are suggesting is that we intern or remove those with form not the Muslims who are innocent people going about their daily lives.
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But we don't have internment and the last time we tried it we just politicised a whole new group of people. The one thing I would do is anyone returning from abroad, that we believe or suspect has been to a trouble hotspot, should be detained & extensively questioned & debriefed as we did with German POW's after the war as part of the de-Nazification programme. They were graded A, B or C on the basis of how intractable their views were.

The other major issue seems to be radicalisation in prison as those inside tend to be less intelligent and more prone to commit criminal acts, making them perfect targets for radicals. I'm sure there's a lot of focus on that but maybe we need to be more pro-active in identifying the recruiters and isolating them from other prisoners.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
But we don't have internment and the last time we tried it we just politicised a whole new group of people. The one thing I would do is anyone returning from abroad, that we believe or suspect has been to a trouble hotspot, should be detained & extensively questioned & debriefed as we did with German POW's after the war as part of the de-Nazification programme. They were graded A, B or C on the basis of how intractable their views were.

The other major issue seems to be radicalisation in prison as those inside tend to be less intelligent and more prone to commit criminal acts, making them perfect targets for radicals. I'm sure there's a lot of focus on that but maybe we need to be more pro-active in identifying the recruiters and isolating them from other prisoners.
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Nothing to disagree with there mate some sensible proposals and at least it's the beginning of dialogue that might make a difference.
 
foetus said:
The guy who held hostage and killed people at the Lindt Cafe in Sydney a couple of years back had an extensive criminal record for some serious shit (rape, armed robbery, attempted murder, hate speech etc if i remember correctly). He should have been locked up, not on bail. How much evidence should be needed for someone to be a direct threat?

In this day and age, anyone supporting isis should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Who gives a fuck if it offends the PC brigade.
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I'm with you on that, all I was saying is that although someone may be known to the authorities it does not flag up that they are a direct risk at that time, the example you give is a great example of where an individual should never have been allowed back onto the streets,
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Mate - we're all fucking angry but some are using that anger to suggest we become as bad as the people who want to hurt us. I'm angry but I don't intend to allow that anger to cloud my judgement or make me rush to unsuitable conclusions. The simple fact is that there is no such thing as a "Muslim" (or a Jew or a Christian) who is part of a homogeneous group that all thinks and acts the same. There is Sunni and Shia, among other groupings. Among Sunni's, there are numerous sects, including Wahhabism or Salafist. And even a majority of those are violent extremists.

So saying we should deport all Muslims or ban Islam is idiotic. And as a democratic state with an independent judiciary and bound by various laws and conventions, we have to ensure we act lawfully in everything we do.
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Excellent post, Colin.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Mate - we're all fucking angry but some are using that anger to suggest we become as bad as the people who want to hurt us. I'm angry but I don't intend to allow that anger to cloud my judgement or make me rush to unsuitable conclusions. The simple fact is that there is no such thing as a "Muslim" (or a Jew or a Christian) who is part of a homogeneous group that all thinks and acts the same. There is Sunni and Shia, among other groupings. Among Sunni's, there are numerous sects, including Wahhabism or Salafist. And even a majority of those are violent extremists.

So saying we should deport all Muslims or ban Islam is idiotic. And as a democratic state with an independent judiciary and bound by various laws and conventions, we have to ensure we act lawfully in everything we do.
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Superb post mate.
 
Town-Hall-Bee-1.jpg


The Manchester Bee - I dont think there is a better symbol right now, to sum up how mancunians/locals have responded to this awful event. togetherness and solidarity.
 
They got another one arrested.

Few incidents in Wigan today - nursery got blocked off. Man got wrestled to the ground in the town centre by Police. They seem to have got whoever they were after and raided his house.
 
Damocles said:
They got another one arrested.

Few incidents in Wigan today - nursery got blocked off. Man got wrestled to the ground in the town centre by Police. They seem to have got whoever they were after and raided his house.
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Holy crap, I think he was in the block of flats I used to live in. Right near Wigan hospital, just at the back of the Tesco.
 
so it was a network that was clearly well established and have been planning stuff like this for a while.

Intelligence services have let us down, people haven't done their jobs properly.

What's also sad is there are kids now who have been through that ordeal, only to find they have no parents because they were standing in the wrong place waiting to pick them up. It's just horrible.
 
BJL_City said:
so it was a network that was clearly well established and have been planning stuff like this for a while.
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Not necessarily. They're trying to establish whether it was a network or not which is why they're raiding a bunch of people.

They've picked up both of the brothers - one in Chorlton but they've also liaised with our allies overseas and his brother in Libya has been nicked and is in custody.

To me this doesn't seem like an organised snare but instead seems like they're kicking down doors of anybody who seems even semi-related and trying to find some answers.
 
BJL_City said:
so it was a network that was clearly well established and have been planning stuff like this for a while.

Intelligence services have let us down, people haven't done their jobs properly.

What's also sad is there are kids now who have been through that ordeal, only to find they have no parents because they were standing in the wrong place waiting to pick them up. It's just horrible.
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I am sorry but that's just an idiotic comment. I don't think that any of us would have wanted this horrific thing to happen, and especially the intelligence service people.

We all are angry and upset, but to say such thing about the people who keep the uk safe 24/7 is just wrong.
 
Now that more victims names are coming out, so are the scammer parasites launching fake fundraiser sites to try and con people out of money via tragedy. Just found one that was clearly false if you knew anything about the specific victims, but had already raised £600+ despite only being up for an hour or so.
 
The bombers father And younger brother have both been arrested in Libya. The son was planning a terrorist attack in tripoli apparently

The father of the suicide bomber is claiming his son ( the one with the bomb strapped to him) is innocent
 
Just saw the leaked pictures of the crime scene in the NYT. Horrific stuff.

How are the Americans getting this info though?
 
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