BlueDeadHead
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So you expect Otta to take a role as 4th CB at his age and essentially get 5-10 starts?
Virgil van Dijk
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So you expect Otta to take a role as 4th CB at his age and essentially get 5-10 starts?
Neville Kneville
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If anything tipped the balance of Otamendi leaving us, to sign for Real Madrid, that would surely be it.
Pretty amusing the disdain for player stats here.
Could've sworn I remember reading an article a few years back where it said City elicit the services of 11-12 companies which specialize in data and statistical anaylsis of players.
Moreover, Pep Guardiola himself said at a press conference in November 2016 I believe that in terms of using numbers and statistics, there is nobody who does it more than him.
But I suppose we all love to hammer things which we don't understand properly -__-
Could've sworn I remember reading an article a few years back where it said City elicit the services of 11-12 companies which specialize in data and statistical anaylsis of players.
Moreover, Pep Guardiola himself said at a press conference in November 2016 I believe that in terms of using numbers and statistics, there is nobody who does it more than him.
But I suppose we all love to hammer things which we don't understand properly -__-
mosssideblue
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Not exactly true though is it? he had some good performances when Vinnie was out
mosssideblue
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You are both missing the point I was trying (obviously not so well) to make. VVD is a great PL defender I agree. What I was trying to point out though is that last season Ota was our best defender yet some are wanting him sold to bring in VVD (would personally rather see Kolorov go). My point is that whilst VVD is a great PL defender, he had only done that for the Saints and there is a huge assumption that he will replicate that for us yet people will let go our best defender to find out whether he could. I'm sure Chelsea thought the same when they took on Torres.
I would love VVD here, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water is all I'm saying.
I'm not fixated by the need to have WC players, I want the best team which IMO, will be a mix of all types.
Bewar3them00n
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Stones without Vinny is a prospect that worries. Otomendi has improved steadily, his positional sense is way better than Stones, and he's not bad on the ball either, Stones still has a lot to learn and some work on his strength needs doing as he goes over too easy.
mosssideblue
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I agree. Stones might be the longer term prospect, but he has a long way to go
The club is more important than any individual, while he's under contract then it's up to him to fight for his place. There shouldn't be any guaranteed starters, whoever is in the best form/working the hardest in training gets the shirt unless there's a specific tactical decision (e.g Van Dijk because of his height against Andy Carroll).
City_Sean
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I don't think you can ever have enough top class players. Otamendi makes the squad far stronger than Kolarov.
blueparrot
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Makes central defence stronger but not the squad because he can't cover left back.
Tugay One Cup
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That last point is very interesting because you've got it the completely the wrong way around.
Precisely the reason why many people have a "disdain for stats" is because many of those obsessives who would likely want to base every decision the club makes with regards to playing staff based on the handful of percentages they read simply don't understand them and don't know how to apply them.
Hearing things like "Otamendi was our best defender according to whoscored" and "this guy only has 76% pass accuracy so he isn't a Pep player" are painful to listen to because it's an oversimplification of what is a very complex sport.
I've moaned about the overemphasis of the importance of statistical analysis before and a big reason for that is because we have many posters who think they know enough about a player they've never seen simply by looking at his statistics on a website. It's not a super special formula which proves the worth of a player, it's a bunch of reflective figures which often have zero bearing on the future performances of the player.
For example, compare Bravo's pass accuracy at Sociedad to when he was at Barcelona. How did Barca's coaching staff know he was capable of changing his game and applying their principles to a very high standard? Because they take a hell of a lot more into consideration than just a couple of numbers. Otamendi has been a good example because there doesn't seem to be any widely published collection of statistics which would indicate just how inexplicably amateur his positioning has been in the majority of the matches he has played for us. However, I can't be arsed to go into that because he seems to be a favourite and, to be fair to the guy, I think he has been superb in nearly every game since Monaco at the Etihad.
This is precisely why analysists play a specific role within a club, rather than making the decisions by themselves; these figures are useful tools and not the single pillar with which to hold up any knowledge you think you have on the game and it's players. And you know what? The people Pep works with and the people the club hire to carry out this analsyis do actually know what they're doing and are qualified for that role. They don't just think they know what they're talking about simply because they have access to a couple of websites and therefore think that they don't have to actually watch player play because they're seeing the game for what it really is:
And it's so, so much more than that.
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the plasterer
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and kolarov can?? :-)
blueparrot
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Fair point
An incredibly ironic last sentence.
Danamy
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Good post and on pointThat last point is very interesting because you've got it the completely the wrong way around.
Precisely the reason why many people have a "disdain for stats" is because many of those obsessives who would likely want to base every decision the club makes with regards to playing staff based on the handful of percentages they read simply don't understand them and don't know how to apply them.
Hearing things like "Otamendi was our best defender according to whoscored" and "this guy only has 76% pass accuracy so he isn't a Pep player" are painful to listen to because it's an oversimplification of what is a very complex sport.
I've moaned about the overemphasis of the importance of statistical analysis before and a big reason for that is because we have many posters who think they know enough about a player they've never seen simply by looking at his statistics on a website. It's not a super special formula which proves the worth of a player, it's a bunch of reflective figures which often have zero bearing on the future performances of the player.
For example, compare Bravo's pass accuracy at Sociedad to when he was at Barcelona. How did Barca's coaching staff know he was capable of changing his game and applying their principles to a very high standard? Because they take a hell of a lot more into consideration than just a couple of numbers. Otamendi has been a good example because there doesn't seem to be any widely published collection of statistics which would indicate just how inexplicably amateur his positioning has been in the majority of the matches he has played for us. However, I can't be arsed to go into that because he seems to be a favourite and, to be fair to the guy, I think he has been superb in nearly every game since Monaco at the Etihad.
This is precisely why analysists play a specific role within a club, rather than making the decisions by themselves; these figures are useful tools and not the single pillar with which to hold up any knowledge you think you have on the game and it's players. And you know what? The people Pep works with and the people the club hire to carry out this analsyis do actually know what they're doing and are qualified for that role. They don't just think they know what they're talking about simply because they have access to a couple of websites and therefore think that they don't have to actually watch player play because they're seeing the game for what it really is:
And it's so, so much more than that.
richards30
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without a dream
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I guarantee not one of those companies is presenting a fucking whoscored season rating to proclaim Otamendi as the second best CB in Europe.
Danamy
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We're certainly in for him but getting him is another thing?
I certainly hope so because of all the reasons I posted last night, VvD alongside Vinny would be the best defensive partnership in Europe imho
I don't think I've got it completely wrong at all. Your entire post pretty much illustrates what I wanted to say.That last point is very interesting because you've got it the completely the wrong way around.
Precisely the reason why many people have a "disdain for stats" is because many of those obsessives who would likely want to base every decision the club makes with regards to playing staff based on the handful of percentages they read simply don't understand them and don't know how to apply them.
Hearing things like "Otamendi was our best defender according to whoscored" and "this guy only has 76% pass accuracy so he isn't a Pep player" are painful to listen to because it's an oversimplification of what is a very complex sport.
I've moaned about the overemphasis of the importance of statistical analysis before and a big reason for that is because we have many posters who think they know enough about a player they've never seen simply by looking at his statistics on a website. It's not a super special formula which proves the worth of a player, it's a bunch of reflective figures which often have zero bearing on the future performances of the player.
For example, compare Bravo's pass accuracy at Sociedad to when he was at Barcelona. How did Barca's coaching staff know he was capable of changing his game and applying their principles to a very high standard? Because they take a hell of a lot more into consideration than just a couple of numbers. Otamendi has been a good example because there doesn't seem to be any widely published collection of statistics which would indicate just how inexplicably amateur his positioning has been in the majority of the matches he has played for us. However, I can't be arsed to go into that because he seems to be a favourite and, to be fair to the guy, I think he has been superb in nearly every game since Monaco at the Etihad.
This is precisely why analysists play a specific role within a club, rather than making the decisions by themselves; these figures are useful tools and not the single pillar with which to hold up any knowledge you think you have on the game and it's players. And you know what? The people Pep works with and the people the club hire to carry out this analsyis do actually know what they're doing and are qualified for that role. They don't just think they know what they're talking about simply because they have access to a couple of websites and therefore think that they don't have to actually watch player play because they're seeing the game for what it really is:
And it's so, so much more than that.
I never claimed people don't understand numbers, but I claim that people don't understand how data is used to reinforce decisions instead of just being the sole base to make them.
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