General Election June 8th

[SWP's back]

Hope all your family have private health care if the conservatives get back in.

Labour have been saying this since '52

 

[Chippy_boy]

Are you seriously saying that privatisation has been a success for the general public? Is the east cost train line run any worse than the west coast?
£12 billion to shareholders, these are the only beneficiaries.

I think the trains are a joke, and were a joke before they were privatised. We've seen a decade of above inflation price increases to fund new investment like the electrification of the GWR line from London to Bristol, for example. This is because the government has not put enough public money in, preferring to fleece by a lot, the people using the service, instead of fleecing everyone a bit less.

The way they were privatised was imo wrong, because it doesn't allow for proper competition, so it's been one of the worst privatisations. But if you hark back to some Orient Express days of luxurious, comfortable, reliable and cheap trains, this is rose coloured glasses extraordinaire. The rail system in this country has been shite for half a century or more.

 

[Blue Mooner]

Just noticed the man behind Corbyn's campaign a chap called Seamus Milne ex Grauniad journalist. Notice he has an 'interesting' background.

'Milne is the younger son of former BBC Director General Alasdair Milne and his wife Sheila Kirsten, née Graucob, who was of Irish and Danish ancestry.[10][11] He attended Winchester College, where he stood in a mock election in 1974 as a Maoist Party candidate,[12]

After graduating from Oxford University, Milne became the business manager of Straight Left, a monthly publication produced from 1979 by a pro-Soviet faction in the Communist Party of Great Britain.[14] Its supporters were not exclusively communists: several left-wing Labour MPs with pro-Soviet bloc sympathies sat on its editorial committee; Milne was not a Communist Party member.[15] Peter Popham wrote in a 1997 article for The Independent that "there is no mistaking that Seumas is on the far left of the Labour Party, of which he has been a member for 20 years'.

Are these 'really' the people we want running our country, communist sympathisers and Maoists? Definitely falls into the champagne socialist category. I notice his parents didn't object to sending him to an independent boarding school but hypocrisy is standard Labour party doctrine.

 

[SWP's back]

It needs to be increased then.

Ha. Do you even know the rates? Or is it just a stock response to any tax (it needs increasing)?

 

[jonmcity]

Labour have been saying this since '52

This government is likely to preside over the largest sustained fall in NHS spending as a share of GDP since 1951, an analysis by the King's Fund says.

The health think tank told the BBC the decade to 2020 would see the longest reduction in the share of the economy devoted to health spending since the middle of the last century.

Meanwhile, an NHS trust head suggested charges might need to be introduced.

The government ruled this out and said it would invest £10bn by 2020.

The King's Fund analysis says: "The 10 years up to 2020-21 are likely to see the largest sustained fall in NHS spending as a share of GDP in any period since 1951."

 

[Chippy_boy]

There will be no Nurses unless we start paying them correctly, especially as they want to stop EU Nurses filling the gap. The increased needs of the elderly, due to inept social care in the community means that the NHS will start to fail. No doubt the excuse to privatise it, as shareholders will run it more efficiently, just like the other privatised utilities. Not.

Clearly you cannot remember when it took the GPO two to three months to install a phone in your house and they charged you a bloody fortune to *rent* the damned thing off them. You're dreaming mate if you think public-run services are better. Everything the government runs is an utter shambles.

That said, there is no chance in hell of the Tories privitising the NHS. It would lose them the election in an instant; it is a sacred cow in this country. If we cannot recruit nurses, we'll have to pay them more in order to do so. It's as simple as that and no amount of scaremongering will change that.

 

[jonmcity]

Ha. Do you even know the rates? Or is it just a stock response to any tax (it needs increasing)?

If he is paying no tax on hundreds of millions a year profits he can afford it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Silva could end up in a coalition government though.

Very good, haha.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Very nice from a smug c**t

I used the wrong word in a quick fire response.

My opinion is relevant and I will use it tomorrow.

He's right though mate. The debt has gone up because of the deficit that Labour handed to the Tories. Vote any way you like by all means, but if you are influenced by thinking the debt has gone up because of the Tories (I doubt you give a shit actually) then you are making a mistake. Had they spent even more on the services you seem to want us to splurge on then the debt would be higher still. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

 

[jonmcity]

Seems to be run fairly efficiently to me, just needs more money to deal with an increasing and ageing population. We need to increase tax revenue to pay for it.

• In comparison with the healthcare systems of ten other countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and USA) the NHS was found to be the most impressive overall by the Commonwealth Fund in 2014.

• The NHS was rated as the best system in terms of efficiency, effective care, safe care, coordinated care, patient-centred care and cost-related problems. It was also ranked second for equity.

Current expenditure per capita (using the purchasing power parity) for the UK was $4,015 in 2015. This can be compared to $9,451 in the USA, $5,343 in the Netherlands, $5,267 in Germany. The UK had 2.8 physicians per 1,000 people in 2015, compared to 4.1 in Germany (2014), 3.9 in Italy (2014), 3.8 in Spain. The UK had 2.7 hospital beds per 1,000 people in 2014, compared to 8.2 in Germany, 6.2 in France. The UK population is projected to increase from an estimated 64.6 million in mid-2014 to 69.0 million by 2024 and 72.7 million by 2034.

 

[SWP's back]

If he is paying no tax on hundreds of millions a year profits he can afford it.

So not "well done Osborne on closing that loop hole for non tax residents that Labour left open"? No, it's simply "raise the CGT rate".

Come on fella, you're an intelligent poster so give credit where it's due. Politics doesn't have to be a football rivalry where everything the oppo does is shit and not good enough.

 

[jonmcity]

Clearly you cannot remember when it took the GPO two to three months to install a phone in your house and they charged you a bloody fortune to *rent* the damned thing off them. You're dreaming mate if you think public-run services are better. Everything the government runs is an utter shambles.

That said, there is no chance in hell of the Tories privitising the NHS. It would lose them the election in an instant; it is a sacred cow in this country. If we cannot recruit nurses, we'll have to pay them more in order to do so. It's as simple as that and no amount of scaremongering will change that.

Not saying the government should run them directly. Just be the only shareholder, the east coast train line seems to be doing OK. and is cheaper to travel than the west coast.

 

[SWP's back]

Seems to be run fairly efficiently to me, just needs more money to deal with an increasing and ageing population. We need to increase tax revenue to pay for it.

• In comparison with the healthcare systems of ten other countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and USA) the NHS was found to be the most impressive overall by the Commonwealth Fund in 2014.

• The NHS was rated as the best system in terms of efficiency, effective care, safe care, coordinated care, patient-centred care and cost-related problems. It was also ranked second for equity.

Current expenditure per capita (using the purchasing power parity) for the UK was $4,015 in 2015. This can be compared to $9,451 in the USA, $5,343 in the Netherlands, $5,267 in Germany. The UK had 2.8 physicians per 1,000 people in 2015, compared to 4.1 in Germany (2014), 3.9 in Italy (2014), 3.8 in Spain. The UK had 2.7 hospital beds per 1,000 people in 2014, compared to 8.2 in Germany, 6.2 in France. The UK population is projected to increase from an estimated 64.6 million in mid-2014 to 69.0 million by 2024 and 72.7 million by 2034.

The expenditure per capita figures you quote include private medical cover mate. It's not government expenditure per capita.

 

[mayo31]

He's right though mate. The debt has gone up because of the deficit that Labour handed to the Tories. Vote any way you like by all means, but if you are influenced by thinking the debt has gone up because of the Tories (I doubt you give a shit actually) then you are making a mistake. Had they spent even more on the services you seem to want us to splurge on then the debt would be higher still. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

I don't mind reading some of your posts as I respect your determination to follow what you think is right.

But then like your mate you spoil it by what you write in brackets.

Face to face you would not have the nerve. I not here to have personal slanging matches. I put a point across, you do and that should be it.

I will retaliate though like I did with gelson

 

[jonmcity]

So not "well done Osborne on closing that loop hole for non tax residents that Labour left open"? No, it's simply "raise the CGT rate".

Come on fella, you're an intelligent poster so give credit where it's due. Politics doesn't have to be a football rivalry where everything the oppo does is shit and not good enough.

Well done Osborne, he obviously had to much common sense for this government so they marginalised him.

 

[jonmcity]

The expenditure per capita figures you quote include private medical cover mate. It's not government expenditure per capita.

Yes it shows that the NHS is run more prudently that private enterprise.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Clearly you cannot remember when it took the GPO two to three months to install a phone in your house and they charged you a bloody fortune to *rent* the damned thing off them. You're dreaming mate if you think public-run services are better. Everything the government runs is an utter shambles.

That said, there is no chance in hell of the Tories privitising the NHS. It would lose them the election in an instant; it is a sacred cow in this country. If we cannot recruit nurses, we'll have to pay them more in order to do so. It's as simple as that and no amount of scaremongering will change that.

But this IS scaremongering, what evidence is there that Labour would "take us back to the 70's", on that principle why are Tories not " taking us back to the 1800's" ? Incidentally saying our railways and utilities can't be run by government isn't currently true, they are being run by foreign governments.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Not saying the government should run them directly. Just be the only shareholder, the east coast train line seems to be doing OK. and is cheaper to travel than the west coast.

Not disagreeing with any of what you post but, the east coast train line is run by Virgin/Stagecoach and has been since March 2015. There was absolutely no need for it to go 'private' but sadly, in the UK at least, ideology will always trump common sense, whoever is in power!

 

[jonmcity]

But this IS scaremongering, what evidence is there that Labour would "take us back to the 70's", on that principle why are Tories not " taking us back to the 1800's" ? Incidentally saying our railways and utilities can't be run by government isn't currently true, they are being run by foreign governments.

Are you sure they are not trying to take us back to the 1800's?

 

[SWP's back]

Yes it shows that the NHS is run more prudently that private enterprise.

No it shows that the NHS plus private spending in the U.K. is cheaper than private spending elsewhere.

Which is what one would expect as private doctors and nurses are paid more than public ones.

Either way it shows that running a national health service is far more cost effective than one solely based on health insurance.