Shaky ground there my friend but all is explained and your true colours uncovered by you calling Andy Burnham a Red Tory traitor.
First point Blair won by convincing middle England to trust him, something that Corbyn will never acheive. Second point he was up against mister no mark John Major. Third point is your history is slightly skewed to fit your argument. Blair got over 43% of the vote whilst Corbyn only managed 40%. Not a huge difference but try telling that to the Lib Dems who achieved 12 seats from 2.4m votes, 7.4% of the turn out and the SNP who got 35 seats from less than a million votes and 3% of the turn out. Point being the difference between a landslide and disaster in UK elections is always a small percentage. Dump Corbyn or lose the next election as well
I've been a member of the Labour party for years, you can ditch everything I ever say if you want, but believe me when I tell you, the Labour Party will never, ever, vote for new labour tories ever again! It was a blip, an aberration, it will not return, it was not the way forward, just a twenty year cul de sac, an meaningless exercise in triangulation.
I've been a member of the Labour party for years, you can ditch everything I ever say but believe me on this when I tell you, the Labour Party will never, ever, vote for new labour tories ever again! It was a blip, an aberration, it will not return, it was not the way forward, just a twenty year cul de sac, an meaningless exercise in triangulation.
I agree.i think under any other leader the conservatives would have won a comfortable majority. the problems came when the issues about social care, the dementia tax. triple lock issues came about. get rid of those policies and as you say focus a bit more on investment, so in policing. i think they would win a majority. labour for how well they did haven't got anywhere near winning.
You could very well be right but a truly left wing Labour party will only seize power through a revolution and not the ballot box.
You wait until your young voters leave university and student grants behind, start paying taxes and become middle England as their predecessors have done even before students had to pay for their education.
There's clearly many people who think like you, and I think equally clearly many in the Labour Party - in particular the parliamentary Labour party - who do not and who wish to hark back to your most successful period. (Funny that???!)
I am not sure you are right in your assessment as to which will win out. Right now the hard left are on a high, but they still lost. That they could not even get more people to vote for them than the dismal Tory party effort, is quite telling about where the nation's head is at: The nation broadly is not hard left, and therefore unless the Labour Party wish to try to spend years in opposition trying to move public opinion in that direction, I find it hard to see how a hard left Labour position can actually win. Labour either needs to become more moderate, or they need the public to become more hard left, which at the moment, they are not as last night's result shows.
Do they? For all of Corbyn's great campaign, Labour still lost. Trailing the Tory party by sizable 57 seats.Blair won by convincing middle England but Corbyn has taken ground by getting record numbers of young voters out. The need to pander to middle England is much less.
Put far more accurately and succinctly than I ever could. Elections aren't won in Sheffield, Manchester or the North East just like they're not won in Kensington, Surrey or the home counties. As encouraging this result is for the Corbynista's I feel this is the best they'll get, until/unless JC and his momentum backers adopt a more pragmatic approach we cannot realistically hope to wrest a majority from the WIDER electorate. Having said all that a statement has been made and this brand of politics is seemingly more palatable than I thought and I too have to accept that I may have to soften my anti Corbyn/Momentum opinion, if the factions of the party can come together a bit more there is hope.Shaky ground there my friend but all is explained and your true colours uncovered by you calling Andy Burnham a Red Tory traitor.
First point Blair won by convincing middle England to trust him, something that Corbyn will never acheive. Second point he was up against mister no mark John Major. Third point is your history is slightly skewed to fit your argument. Blair got over 43% of the vote whilst Corbyn only managed 40%. Not a huge difference but try telling that to the Lib Dems who achieved 12 seats from 2.4m votes, 7.4% of the turn out and the SNP who got 35 seats from less than a million votes and 3% of the turn out. Point being the difference between a landslide and disaster in UK elections is always a small percentage. Dump Corbyn or lose the next election as well
You could very well be right but a truly left wing Labour party will only seize power through a revolution and not the ballot box.
Yes, I'm oneIs it? For all of Corbyn's great campaign, Labour still lost. Trailing the Tory party by sizable 57 seats.
I could never vote for Corbyn in a billion years. Dan Jarvis - Yes, maybe another leader who I could be sure looks after the security of the country but not Corbyn and I'm pretty sure there are millions like me.
You more succinctly said what I am thinking.
The challenge for Labour is how to get moderate thinking, but fairly strong Tory supporters to vote Labour. If they cannot do that, the entrenched Tory vote makes a Labour majority almost impossible, imo. And taking a hard left line is not going to achieve that any time soon. Blair won repeatedly (and big) by appealing to moderate Tory voters. All hard left Labour leaders in the past 50 years have lost.
You more succinctly said what I am thinking.
The challenge for Labour is how to get moderate thinking, but fairly strong Tory supporters to vote Labour. If they cannot do that, the entrenched Tory vote makes a Labour majority almost impossible, imo. And taking a hard left line is not going to achieve that any time soon. Blair won repeatedly (and big) by appealing to moderate Tory voters. All hard left Labour leaders in the past 50 years have lost.
I agree.
Her disdain for electorate was obvious from early on in the campaign when she refused to do the TV debates. She came across as smug and assumed that all she had to do was turn up to win. Because of this expectation to win she started going on about things like bringing back fox hunting etc which showed her up as the sort of tory most normal people can't stand. Her campaign was so poor that Labour should actually have won and had they not gone hard left with their leadership and policies they would have done.