Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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worsleyweb said:
Its human error in that case surely. I am sure it will largely boil down to that. As someone who has worked on high rise buildings - this is a multitude of issues - potentially down to Building Control sign off. That has absolutely nothing to do with political parties - it has to do with someone not doing their job very well.
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If a bad design has been used for cash reasons, then it's not human error.
Might be political, might not be.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
I see McDonnell is trying to rally the unions onto the streets to force another GE. Does he not realise that isn't how a democracy works?
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its the modern way, don't like the result, shout and moan and protest until you get your own way - the power of social media . same with brexit, same with trump. now may having it too even though she got the most seats.

fuck democracy - say the I am right crew (but they are usually left).
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
but whilst I do want sensible fiscal controls, it is undeniable that the public sector is crumbling just as bad as the roads. I am all for balancing the books but manchester is filthy , I have to pay extra now to get the bin men to pick my green bin. Manchester may be booming but its with private money, the parks are awful and the streets full of shit.

the nhs is stretched, police cut , schools struggling - now part of the issue is a population explosion so extra supply and scarce resources but it cannot continue like this.

there needs to be a loosening of the purse strings. if you are a public sector worker a 1% pay cap whilst inflation is at 3% is a pay decrease.

and by loosening the purse strings I don't mean increasing the benefits to people , I mean paying people better who work, sorting the roads out, other public services , nhs and schools and get a shit load of bleach and clean the bloody streets up and plant flowers and make the place look nice again!! and all those mainly men sleeping rough in the street can we find out why and sort them out too - get them somewhere to live and get them started back in life they need help not pity.
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There is your answer - Manchester may be booming - therefore more tax paid, more jobs, more revenue and reduced deficits and in time more money for a more efficient public sector. Manchester is about to sort the homelessness problem.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
If a bad design has been used for cash reasons, then it's not human error.
Might be political, might not be.
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Doesnt matter about cash - building control have to sign something off - it has to be compliant. they don't care about budgets it has to comply. Somewhere errors have been made. It is not political.
 
worsleyweb said:
There is your answer - Manchester may be booming - therefore more tax paid, more jobs, more revenue and reduced deficits and in time more money for a more efficient public sector. Manchester is about to sort the homelessness problem.
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I hope so mate, it is increasing year on year and its mainly men unfortunately

they need to sort the fucking roads out though they are a disgrace
 
worsleyweb said:
Its human error in that case surely. I am sure it will largely boil down to that. As someone who has worked on high rise buildings - this is a multitude of issues - potentially down to Building Control sign off. That has absolutely nothing to do with political parties - it has to do with someone not doing their job very well.
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Quite possibly human error, but if the human error was someone acting as an elected official then its political and is to do with the political parties.
Equally the building regs are a matter of legislation and therefore if the regs themselves are at fault then its political.
If the human "error" was deliberate then its possibly a criminal offense and still possibly political if the "error" should have been found with correct oversight by the council

Its all speculation at this point, until the investigation into the fire is completed.
 
pirate said:
Quite possibly human error, but if the human error was someone acting as an elected official then its political and is to do with the political parties.
Equally the building regs are a matter of legislation and therefore if the regs themselves are at fault then its political.
If the human "error" was deliberate then its possibly a criminal offense and still possibly political if the "error" should have been found with correct oversight by the council

Its all speculation at this point, until the investigation into the fire is completed.
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Lets agree on your last line - so no one should be using it for political gain until facts are know. Agreed?
 
pirate said:
hundreds may have died and its perfectly proper and correct that senior political figures go and sympathise with the victims and the families of the victims.
if they all stay away then it will appear that the victims are being ignored.
Go, sympathise, dont make a political speech blaming the other side. Jeremy went, sympathised and didnt blame the conservatives. Some of the victims made political comments, but surely thats their right. It would have been equally their right to have a go at Jeremy if they had wanted

as for politics, both left and right have entrenched views. We can debate that if you want?
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Substantive posts from the left go unanswered time and time again, it's the Overton window, there is only a limited range of ideas certain posters will accept. If you step outside that range you are a zealot. I've lost count of the number of times I've been accused of being hard left when all I and others advocate is mainstream social democracy, of the sort common on the continent but considered dangerous Marxism here.

If you look at what Corbyn is suggesting, it is, with the exception of Trident, to the right of Harold Wilson, he is a socialists yes and he comes from the socialist wing of the Labour Party, but the Labour Party itself is not a socialist party, it is a social democratic broad church party. What remnants of socialism that existed in Labour's constitution, the infamous clause IV, was inserted in to the Labour Party constitution at the end of the 1st World War by Sidney Webb, but this was expunged by Blair in the 90's in his short lived attempt to create a new party, New Labour.

New Labour is now dead, some genuinely lament its passing, but those that make the most noise in here are simply Tories making mischief.
 
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worsleyweb said:
Doesnt matter about cash - building control have to sign something off - it has to be compliant. they don't care about budgets it has to comply. Somewhere errors have been made. It is not political.
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If control have failed, it might still be political as to why.

I'd not necessarily been thinking of the standards people, but to my mind, it falls under the same concept - it might be an error (but ye gods, it's inconceivable that anyone worth employing would do that), but it might be an effect of policy.
 
pirate said:
Quite possibly human error, but if the human error was someone acting as an elected official then its political and is to do with the political parties.
Equally the building regs are a matter of legislation and therefore if the regs themselves are at fault then its political.
If the human "error" was deliberate then its possibly a criminal offense and still possibly political if the "error" should have been found with correct oversight by the council

Its all speculation at this point, until the investigation into the fire is completed.
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Again, only if the reason why there is a failure is due to policy. is it political. A reg can be wrong for reasons other than policy.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
lol.
Another reasoned rebuttal.
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Christ Almighty! You wait an age then three turn up at the same time...

Three-Amigos-origianl.jpg
 
The perfect fumble said:
Substantive posts from the left go unanswered time and time again, it's the Overton window, there is only a limited range of ideas certain posters will accept. If you step outside that range you are a zealot. I've lost count of the number of times I've been accused of being hard left when all I and others advocate is mainstream social democracy, of the sort common on the continent but considered dangerous Marxism here.

If you look at what Corbyn is suggesting, it is, with the exception of Trident, to the right of Harold Wilson, he is a socialists yes and he comes from the socialist wing of the Labour Party, but the Labour Party itself is not a socialist party, it is a social democratic broad church party. What remnants of socialism that existed in Labour's constitution, the infamous clause IV, was inserted in to the Labour Party constitution at the end of the 1st World War by Sidney Webb but this was expunged by Blair in the 90's in his short lived attempt to create a new party, New Labour.

New Labour is now dead, some genuinely lament its passing, but those that make the most noise in here are simply Tories making mischief.
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Or people who are not political genius's but see that every time labour get in power things seem to go tits up and things at the moment are not that bad at all. The government gave us a referendum - the people spoke and now they are trying to deliver it.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
I see McDonnell is trying to rally the unions onto the streets to force another GE. Does he not realise that isn't how a democracy works?
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dont you realise thats exactly how democracy works.

we have had an inconclusive general election. The largest party are trying to put together a government with a small and, some would say extreme, party. People disagree with whats she is doing so rally support and show the level that support by peacefully demonstrating, to put pressure on their elected MPs to vote against the queens speech.
 
pirate said:
dont you realise thats exactly how democracy works.

we have had an inconclusive general election. The largest party are trying to put together a government with a small and, some would say extreme, party. People disagree with whats she is doing so rally support and show the level that support by peacefully demonstrating, to put pressure on their elected MPs to vote against the queens speech.
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So the party that got nearly 50 less seats and less votes becomes the Government - seems reasonable - i think labour are extreme
 
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