Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[mackenzie]

Maybe some truth in what you say - would be better if there was a party a little more centre ground.

I think the argument is the definition of centre ground. For example, I don't think Corbyn extreme left wing, I see him as left of centre. And getting closer to what many people actually want.

 

[worsleyweb]

I think the argument is the definition of centre ground. For example, I don't think Corbyn extreme left wing, I see him as left of centre. And getting closer to what many people actually want.

It his issues on security, Ira links, immigration policy that get me not really his economic policy if I am honest. I just don't like his history.

 

[blueinsa]

Not disagreeing with that but that is a separate discussion.

You have just done that, disagree with me when i made that very point.

You said you had no idea where i was coming from yet all of a sudden, you accept its an issue?

Its also very much up for discussion when the government is insistent on saying there is no money when the reality of the situation is there is lots of money and they should do far more in making sure its paid.

The tax system in this country is a joke, skewed heavily in favour of the rich and corporates but no real surprise there i guess?

 

[worsleyweb]

You have just done that, disagree with me when i made that very point.

You said you had no idea where i was coming from yet all of a sudden, you accept its an issue?

Its also very much up for discussion when the government is insistent on saying their is no money when the reality of the situation is there is lots of money and they should do far more in making sure its paid.

The tax system in this country is a joke, skewed heavily in favour of the rich and corporates but no real surprise there i guess?

You are getting your wires crossed I think. You are going on about paye vs deleverate accounting by self employed businesses. That was never my issue. My issues is you can't penalise small business by increasing tax levels as it impacts in jobs and employment. By all means if people are playing the system by clever accounting - clamp down but don't looks to raise a punitive tax across the board as it is proven to hurt those it is supposedly to help. People wanting jobs.

I think we are both struggling a bit here to be honest to understand what we are both getting at.

 

[blueinsa]

You are getting your wires crossed. You are going on about paye vs deleverate accounting by self employed businesses. That was never my issue. My issues is you can't penalise small business by increasing tax levels as it impacts in jobs and employment. By all means if people are playing the system by clever accounting - clamp down but don't looks to raise a punitive tax across the board as it is proven to hurt those it is supposedly to help. People wanting jobs.

I think we are both struggling a bit here to be honest to understand what we are both getting at.

Ive not once said increase tax levels for small business. Ive said they should be made to pay all tax due in the same way big corporations should be made to pay all tax due along with Millionaires and Billionaires etc etc etc.

As a society, we all have a duty to pay what we are due to pay and i'm sick of hearing how small business or entrepreneurs should be treated differently or that Starbucks and Amazon will pick their ball up and take it home if we threaten them with a tax bill.

Radical i know but lets fill the treasury with all that is due and see if we need to carry on with austerity?

Im guessing not!

 

[worsleyweb]

Ive not once said increase tax levels for small business. Ive said they should be made to pay all tax due in the same way big corporations should be made to pay all tax due along with Millionaires and Billionaires etc etc etc.

As a society, we all have a duty to pay what we are due to pay and i'm sick of hearing how small business or entrepreneurs should be treated differently or that Starbucks and Amazon will pick their ball up and take it home if we threaten them with a tax bill.

Radical i know but lets fill the treasury with all that is due and see if we need to carry on with austerity?

Im guessing not!

I think I agree with you. We got there in the end. Now what about my Facebook link?

 

[blueinsa]

I think I agree with you. We got there in the end. Now what about my Facebook link?

Please dont take this personally but as a businessman you will use an accountant and part of his job will be to minimise your tax liabilities yes?

Its what all self employed people and businesses do and it legal.

My point is it shouldn't be legal and that tax should be a red line for the government in that you pay whats due 100%.

Our corporation tax rates are a joke with a gun held to the countries head now by big business.

Id scrap it tomorrow and introduce a turnover tax which is non negotiable and will be paid by all business.

 

[worsleyweb]

Please dont take this personally but as a businessman you will use an accountant and part of his job will be to minimise your tax liabilities yes?

Its what all self employed people and businesses do and it legal.

My point is it shouldn't be legal and that tax should be a red line for the government in that you pay whats due 100%.

Our corporation tax rates are a joke with a gun held to the countries head now by big business.

Id scrap it tomorrow and introduce a turnover tax which is non negotiable and will be paid by all business.

Yes - I do all I can to manage my tax as managed by my accountants. I leave it to them but I guess your idea would rake in more tax. There are ways to manage the system as you say.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Well I am buying her a salon and she struggles academically so that is part of the reason but I just don't se the pint if her having 50k of debt to get a 25k a year job when she can grow a business from age 20 and she wants to have kids by 25ish so just didn't make sense.

You should have explained to her that it's not really a 'debt', it's a contribution. It never needs to be paid off and at £25k a year she'd pay off about £8 per week on top of her tax and NI.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Please dont take this personally but as a businessman you will use an accountant and part of his job will be to minimise your tax liabilities yes?

Its what all self employed people and businesses do and it legal.

My point is it shouldn't be legal and that tax should be a red line for the government in that you pay whats due 100%.

Our corporation tax rates are a joke with a gun held to the countries head now by big business.

Id scrap it tomorrow and introduce a turnover tax which is non negotiable and will be paid by all business.

unless you're going to go all Trumpian and say you can't sell it here unless you make it or play absolutely by our rules (which I'm not sure we're in the bargaining position to play) then they'd just bugger off.

 

[blueinsa]

unless you're going to go all Trumpian and say you can't sell it here unless you make it or play absolutely by our rules (which I'm not sure we're in the bargaining position to play) then they'd just bugger off.

If starbucks doesn't want to sell coffee here then so be it. Im sure the world will still turn and someone else will step into their place in the marketplace.

Again though its the gun to the head, "we will leave....honest....we mean it"

No they wont because they all make too much money in the UK and still would if they paid their fair shares in tax.

 

[mackenzie]

It his issues on security, Ira links, immigration policy that get me not really his economic policy if I am honest. I just don't like his history.

That's honest, so thanks for that.
Yet how can you support any Government that supplies weapons (because it helps make our country money) to other countries that then use such weapons in a way that is abhorrent?
How can you dislike one man for trying to stop such acts yet support a regime that ultimately destroys people's lives?

 

[goalmole]

It his issues on security, Ira links, immigration policy that get me not really his economic policy if I am honest. I just don't like his history.

Without opening another can of worms in here. What do you find so objectionable about his immigration policy? As far as I can see, what he has said is that he doesn't think that immigration from the EU is too high. I think it is pretty honest on his part to say that as a leader of one of the main political parties. A great part of the immigration anxiety in this country, IMO, has been caused by the refusal of politicians of all shades to be honest in their appraisal of immigration. Never will they say that immigration is a necessary part of our economy. That it is people from the EU as much as anywhere else that keep our industries and services staffed and running. Services and industries that would come to a halt if it wasn't for immigrants, prepared to work for low wages in unskilled jobs thereby making businesses viable whereas they otherwise wouldn't be and immigrants that fill a skills shortage in higher skilled jobs. Instead, for party political and electoral reasons, they pander to people who haven't thought the consequences through and are encouraged in their belief that immigration is the evil at the root of all our problems. The dishonesty of politicians has encouraged the clamour for cutting immigration when they know damn well that it isn't possible without detriment to the economy. In fact if it wasn't for the dishonesty of politicians, the Brexit referendum may never have come to pass. Brexit or no Brexit, immigration will have to continue and it is right for Corbyn to acknowledge as much.

 

[blue cigar]

Yeah but they work hard so it's only fair unlike the millions forced to pay tax via paye with no choice whatsoever.

Completely agree. Tighten the loopholes to make it fair, stop contractors and self employed taking the piss.

 

[worsleyweb]

You should have explained to her that it's not really a 'debt', it's a contribution. It never needs to be paid off and at £25k a year she'd pay off about £8 per week on top of her tax and NI.

It's not for everyone though mate. She struggles academically and wants to be close to her mum. No point her doing a course for the sake of it. Getting a job and paying it back. Earning 25k forever won't get her very far and I think having a go at a business with help from me will be better for her long term future. Think too many see university as the be all and end all. I really don't think it is in many cases. In fact I think too many go. That's for a separate thread anyway.

 

[jonmcity]

Firefighters at least £2,000 a year worse off in real terms since 2010. Another set of heroes being looked after well by our government.

 

[cleavers]

Without commenting on any individual posts, the last 3 or 4 pages have turned into a really good discussion on both sides, and all very civil too.

 

[pirate]

so that's 20 years of people paying for themselves then, so that's enough for my assertion to be fair.

Anyone supporting free tuition from now on is just wilfully harming the generation who's already been hung out to dry, it's callous really.

so your generation has been treated like shit, so the next generation should be as well.
Is that really an argument you want to go with?

how about not treating the next generation like shit and your generation being compensated for being treated like shit, wouldnt that be a better way to go?

 

[pirate]

You should have explained to her that it's not really a 'debt', it's a contribution. It never needs to be paid off and at £25k a year she'd pay off about £8 per week on top of her tax and NI.

it is a debt though and is taken into account when you apply for other loans, so house purchases become harder for example.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I see that woman on tv, & backed up by people like Boris Johnson, & Gove, in the middle of a brexit fiasco, which the opposition skillfully hid away from 'til it was over,thus leaving most of the shit on the, useless bent,, incompetent, ugly, government, then I see that bearded twat & his stupid fuckwit followers, smugly celebrating losing to them.

The Tories are Utd & Labour are Arsenal.

What a bunch of cunts, the lot of 'em.