Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[goalmole]

Ok, not the majority of votes but the US does not work that way and neither does it here. I mentioned numbers purely to illustrate that for some people the voting numbers are all that matters but they become irrelevant. Here however the Conservatives won 42.4% of the vote which is 42.4% more than anyone else did, that makes them the popular party.

Trump won because he won the majority of states as according to the electoral college system, he basically just didn't win the big states like California and New York but he won everything else.

Here we elect an MP and the Conservatives have gained 55 more MP's than Labour and they gained more votes than Labour. Therefore Jeremy Corbyn has no mandate to form a government as it is impossible for him to establish a majority.

He lost, time for some to accept it.

The Tories didn't get 42.4% more votes than any one else. They got 2.4% more votes than Labour. They got 15.2% less than all the other parties combined. They are 8 short of a majority.
They are trying to do a deal with a partisan bunch of extremist sympathisers to keep them in power. With their support they will have a whopping majority of .......3seats.
Meanwhile Labour have gained the momentum and captured the voters imagination and shown that Corbyn is a man who cares for the ordinary person, while the Tories have been shown to be the arrogant , out of touch, aloof opportunists that they are.
Labour didn't win but it's hardly a ringing endorsement of the Tories, is it.

 

[goalmole]

It was doing a deal (several in fact) that paved the way for the relatively peaceful situation we now have in N. Ireland. The governments of Wilson, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major and Blair all spoke directly to Sinn Fein and the IRA. "The pipe", as was known the conduit between the UK government and the IRA was kept open throughout the atrocities. If it had been closed, as was demanded by more than one PM, but rebuffed by the brighter parts of their respective governments, we'd still be seeing nationalist and loyalist murders on the scale we witnessed in the late 60s, 70s and 80s. Thankfully, it wasn't. Hard as it was/is to do deals with "those cunts", it's been proven to be the right thing. Peter Taylor, author of the troubles-defining trilogy "Brits" "Loyalists" and "The IRA" wrote a brilliant follow up: "Talking to The Terrorists". As the title infers, it's conversation that ultimately has to prevail.

So why then is Corbyn singled out as an IRA sympathiser when all he was doing was talking to them in an attempt to bring peace.
Can't have it both ways.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I wasn't alive when Thatcher came to power, I don't see how any of that line of thinking is relevant......treason....The way things are just cannot be tolerated....order and respect of democracy simply has to be maintained.

You're right, these malcontents are not one of us, in fact, you could call them the enemy within.

 

[Bigga]

Ok, not the majority of votes but the US does not work that way and neither does it here. I mentioned numbers purely to illustrate that for some people the voting numbers are all that matters but they become irrelevant. Here however the Conservatives won 42.4% of the vote which is 42.4% more than anyone else did, that makes them the popular party.

Trump won because he won the majority of states as according to the electoral college system, he basically just didn't win the big states like California and New York but he won everything else.

Here we elect an MP and the Conservatives have gained 55 more MP's than Labour and they gained more votes than Labour. Therefore Jeremy Corbyn has no mandate to form a government as it is impossible for him to establish a majority.

He lost, time for some to accept it.

I may be sh*t at maths, but I'm pretty sure Labour lost by 2.4% of the vote, not 42.4%!!

 

[Bigga]

So why then is Corbyn singled out as an IRA sympathiser when all he was doing was talking to them in an attempt to bring peace.
Can't have it both ways.

Been arguing the same point with ''worsleysweb' but, guess what?

He, conveniently, ducks an actual response!

Try it with him!

Even more odd is it's his main reason for not aligning with Corbyn!

LOL!

 

[inbetween]

I may be sh*t at maths, but I'm pretty sure Labour lost by 2.4% of the vote, not 42.4%!!

Obviously they didn't, the difference between the two was 2.4%, I was saying they gained 42.4% of the vote whereas no-one else did. It would be pretty difficult for someone to gain anything beyond 50% to gain a majority vote given we essentially have a two party politicial system along with whoever Scotland throws in the bag.

Unfortunately none of this matters all that much because we elect based upon seats, 326 to gain a majority, the Tories are 9 shy of that however most crucially in my thinking is Labour are 64 shy. At the deep end of what I am saying is they are also 800,000 votes shy...

Again, it is time to accept that Labour lost this election.

 

[The perfect fumble]

This is a video from late last year, it's part of a series called Rebuild and Transform on Corbyn's YouTube Channel.

I would recommend anyone with an open mind to give them a try.....

 

[franksinatra]

I may be sh*t at maths, but I'm pretty sure Labour lost by 2.4% of the vote, not 42.4%!!

No you are definitely wrong. Inbetween who told us the 'vast majority of americans voted for Trump', (even though he got less votes than Clinton) now assures us Labour got 42.4 percent less of the vote than the Conservatives. It must be your maths.

 

[goalmole]

Been arguing the same point with ''worsleysweb' but, guess what?

He, conveniently, ducks an actual response!

Try it with him!

Even more odd is it's his main reason for not aligning with Corbyn!

LOL!

This is what you get when you follow the rantings of a billionaire owned rag that is trying to preserve their owners vested interests and prejudices. They are shameless liars, by thoughtlessly parroting their agenda their readers become shameless liars as well.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It was doing a deal (several in fact) that paved the way for the relatively peaceful situation we now have in N. Ireland. The governments of Wilson, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major and Blair all spoke directly to Sinn Fein and the IRA. "The pipe", as was known the conduit between the UK government and the IRA was kept open throughout the atrocities. If it had been closed, as was demanded by more than one PM, but rebuffed by the brighter parts of their respective governments, we'd still be seeing nationalist and loyalist murders on the scale we witnessed in the late 60s, 70s and 80s. Thankfully, it wasn't. Hard as it was/is to do deals with "those cunts", it's been proven to be the right thing. Peter Taylor, author of the troubles-defining trilogy "Brits" "Loyalists" and "The IRA" wrote a brilliant follow up: "Talking to The Terrorists". As the title infers, it's conversation that ultimately has to prevail.

I would have thought it was obvious that I was referring to the Tories getting into bed with the DUP.

 

[Bigga]

Obviously they didn't, the difference between the two was 2.4%, I was saying they gained 42.4% of the vote whereas no-one else did. It would be pretty difficult for someone to gain anything beyond 50% to gain a majority vote given we essentially have a two party politicial system along with whoever Scotland throws in the bag.

Unfortunately none of this matters all that much because we elect based upon seats, 326 to gain a majority, the Tories are 9 shy of that however most crucially in my thinking is Labour are 64 shy and at the deep end of what I am saying is they are 800,000 votes shy...

Again, it is time to accept that Labour lost this election.

This voting system is all down to boundary markers. This is similar to the electoral college voting system in the States!

And, you're taking a leap that 800,000 votes is a huge margin!

I assure it's nothing of the sort, especially if you think about where Corbyn started from; hampered by the media and his own Party!!

Nothing short of a miracle he got as much he did!

You have to admit that!

It reminds me of 'the tortoise and the hare' except the hare wins by quite a slim margin (after taking things for granted) and boasts, ignoring all the things that worked against the tortoise!!

 

[franksinatra]

Been arguing the same point with ''worsleysweb' but, guess what?

He, conveniently, ducks an actual response!

Try it with him!

Even more odd is it's his main reason for not aligning with Corbyn!

LOL!

Its the political equivalent of United fans mocking the europa league as the channel five/Thursday night cup and now making out its a prestigous trophy.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Obviously they didn't, the difference between the two was 2.4%, I was saying they gained 42.4% of the vote whereas no-one else did. It would be pretty difficult for someone to gain anything beyond 50% to gain a majority vote given we essentially have a two party politicial system along with whoever Scotland throws in the bag.

Unfortunately none of this matters all that much because we elect based upon seats, 326 to gain a majority, the Tories are 9 shy of that however most crucially in my thinking is Labour are 64 shy. At the deep end of what I am saying is they are also 800,000 votes shy...

Again, it is time to accept that Labour lost this election.

What also matters is that some of the Tories most divisive policies, like the dementia tax and scrapping school dinners, will need to be re-thought.

 

[Bigga]

Its the political equivalent of United fans mocking the europa league as the channel five/Thursday night cup and now making out its a prestigous trophy.

LOL!!

That is the PERFECT analogy!!

 

[The perfect fumble]

This is what you get when you follow the rantings of a billionaire owned rag that is trying to preserve their owners vested interests and prejudices. They are shameless liars, by thoughtlessly parroting their agenda their readers become shameless liars as well.

You're right, the only tools they have to frame their argument are tabloid sound bites.

They are genuinely perplexed why those who don't agree with them refuse to comply. They point to the ballot box and say that those who are at the receiving end of austerity, wage stagnation, inflationary food prices, lack of housing and social provision, healthcare cuts, student debt, zero hours contracts, insecurity, must suck it up, because our first past the post system has managed to produce a minority government that just about managed to cobble together enough voters, not at the sharp end of these measures, to support it.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers! The ballot box is a means to an end, not an end in itself. In the past the result at the ballot box was accepted by all, regardless of the outcome, because a social consensus existed, a glue that bound us together as citizens. Inbetween is too young to remember that. Now the ballot box is used for narrow class based interests, if the Tories shore up their base with sufficient goodies they can secure a writ countrywide to fuck over vast numbers of people, but "it doesn't matter because they don’t vote for us"...Duncan Smith.

This is where we are now, decades of Thatcherism and its pale echoes in Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May, where the only thing that defines us are our divisions.

 

[johnnytapia]

So why then is Corbyn singled out as an IRA sympathiser when all he was doing was talking to them in an attempt to bring peace.
Can't have it both ways.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make; I think Corbyn is right to have maintained dialogue with the IRA. Just as all previous governments have back to Wilson.

 

[SWP's back]

The Tories didn't get 42.4% more votes than any one else. They got 2.4% more votes than Labour. They got 15.2% less than all the other parties combined. They are 8 short of a majority.
They are trying to do a deal with a partisan bunch of extremist sympathisers to keep them in power. With their support they will have a whopping majority of .......3seats.
Meanwhile Labour have gained the momentum and captured the voters imagination and shown that Corbyn is a man who cares for the ordinary person, while the Tories have been shown to be the arrogant , out of touch, aloof opportunists that they are.
Labour didn't win but it's hardly a ringing endorsement of the Tories, is it.

You are correct of course, Labour didn't win.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The establishment line....

The thing about anger and its energy is it has to get directed in the right way. It has to get shaped so it becomes a positive source. And I think the thing that I find most troubling is those who would wish to use that anger to deepen divisions in society."

Cardinal Vincent Nichols Catholic Archbishop of Westminster

 

[johnnytapia]

I would have thought it was obvious that I was referring to the Tories getting into bed with the DUP.

My error then. I thought, given the trail of the thread and the post you were answering to, that you were referring to any deal with Sinn Fein. Apologies. As an aside, I don't think Labour have any legitimate claim to a mandate to govern from this election. None whatsoever. The semantics about voter percentages and increased seats for Corbyn cannot mask the stark truth of who-has-what in the Commons. Yes, May lost seats, yes it was great to see this, but as a Labour voter, I'm not deluded enough to believe that we somehow "won". Labour absolutely came a very, very distant second.

 

[SWP's back]

So why then is Corbyn singled out as an IRA sympathiser when all he was doing was talking to them in an attempt to bring peace.

Come on now. You think that's as far as it went?

And hosting a party for Gerry Adams to promote his autobiography just after the Brighton bombing was going to help that process? Or holding minutes silence for the IRA terrorists killed rather magnificently by the SAS as they tried to bomb a police station? That would have gone down well with the Loyalists eh?