Because he is not ready. Seen him play and he is inconsistent yet talented. Needs to physically grow and that's before his mentality which is sounding childish. He will get his chance when he proves better than the options available for pep.
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Jadon Sancho
- Thread starter sam-caddick
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PannickAtTheDisco
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I disagree. If it wasn't still an issue then Roberts would be nailed on for a squad role given his performances for Celtic. We're instead thinking of splashing out for Sanchez. I don't necessarily disagree with that decision but it's not going to look great from an academy prospect's point of view. Sancho will understandably think we'll send him on loan shortly for a season or two and will then overlook him on his return for the next shiny new signing. Why not cut out the middle man?
Foden may well end up included in the squad this season, Roberts won't. Your experiences on loan are only of any use if you bring it to the table in front of Pep. Foden did on tour, Roberts looked "nervous" to say the least. Even Rosenborg held Celtic to a draw ffs, one loan with nice figures at the end doesn't cut it. Doing what Pep wants, and doing it really well in pre-season is far more important and a far bigger message.
Exeter Blue I am here
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he's what? 17. Needs to get an ounce of realism in his skull or he's going to be forever disappointed. Just entitlement. Foden, Brahim, Duhaney are prepared to earn it, Sancho wants it handed to him with guarantees.
I agree 100%. My understanding is that he's represented by his dad and personally I think he's had Spurs and Arsenal filling his head with nonsense. When a 17 year old doesn't want to at least try and fight his way to the top at the most upwardly mobile club in world football, with the best manager, playing the best brand of football, and surrounded by superb technicians that he could learn a lot from, then as far as I'm concerned he can get bent. Pep did absolutely the right thing snubbing him from the American tour. It's up to Sancho now if he wants to get his head down and fight, but personally I don't think he has any intention of doing so and that he'll leave the club
Because he is not ready. Seen him play and he is inconsistent yet talented. Needs to physically grow and that's before his mentality which is sounding childish. He will get his chance when he proves better than the options for pep.
What chance does an academy player have to prove he's a better option than a first team player if he can never play in the first team until he can prove that.
It's like companies trying to hire graduates with 5 years of experience.
Foden may well end up included in the squad this season, Roberts won't. Your experiences on loan are only of any use if you bring it to the table in front of Pep. Foden did on tour, Roberts looked "nervous" to say the least. Even Rosenborg held Celtic to a draw ffs, one loan with nice figures at the end doesn't cut it. Doing what Pep wants, and doing it really well in pre-season is far more important and a far bigger message.
So Roberts' brilliant loan spell is worthless because he's had a couple of games when he hasn't impressed? I didn't manage to watch the preseason games but I understand Foden didn't do much against Real or Spurs?
And Roberts can only play against what's in front of him. Premier League sides don't tend to take risks to develop their competitors youth players for some reason. There's a reason we can only loan to Celtic and the Eredivise and get a likelihood of first team minutes (even Girona didn't play Maffeo much). We can't send him to Celtic for two years and then blame him for only playing for Celtic when he returns.
And Foden and Diaz's preseason performances don't necessarily mean they'll be involved when the season proper begins so it's not a cheque Sancho can hypothetically bank.
What chance does an academy player have to prove he's a better option than a first team player if he can never play in the first team until he can prove that.
It's like companies trying to hire graduates with 5 years of experience.
So Roberts' brilliant loan spell is worthless because he's had a couple of games when he hasn't impressed? I didn't manage to watch the preseason games but I understand Foden didn't do much against Real or Spurs?
And Roberts can only play against what's in front of him. Premier League sides don't tend to take risks to develop their competitors youth players for some reason. There's a reason we can only loan to Celtic and the Eredivise and get a likelihood of first team minutes (even Girona didn't play Maffeo much). We can't send him to Celtic for two years and then blame him for only playing for Celtic when he returns.
And Foden and Diaz's preseason performances don't necessarily mean they'll be involved when the season proper begins so it's not a cheque Sancho can hypothetically bank.
Kane had 4 loan spells think Roberts needs another one with a premier club
Kane had 4 loan spells think Roberts needs another one with a premier club
I wouldn't disagree with that based on his preseason.
However I wouldn't be certain that Roberts would be happy with that, nor if other PL clubs would be interested. Why should they spend a year developing Roberts for us when they can buy a similarly talented player and develop him for themselves. Nobody in the league is short on cash.
I don't think Kane ever had a PL loan?
ChicagoBlue
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Sancho and his Dad are learning that City is the place to grow and develop, not the place to get your £10M contract for your 18th birthday! Pep is in COMPLETE control of thissquad and the development of the youngsters on the fringe. He has earned that privilege and is trusted by the powers that be. So, if Sancho wants to buckle down and do the REAL WORK NEEDED to become a Premier League player in a squad of £50M talent in every position, then he needs to get his finger out and show he is in that ball park. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't yet!
At this point, given the clear goals of the club ownership, the team they have put in place to do the business...and the business they have done to date...it would be foolish to second guess decisions they are making. That day has to be reserved for the future, if this strategy doesn't pay the dividends that seem almost inevitable given the quality of football we saw at times last season and have been treated to during the past two games against the #1 team in Spain and #2 team in England last season. Any other preseason, a "Typical City" preseason would have seen those two results being reversed and Vity on the receiving end of those two spankings.
The future is Blue...and Jadon (and his Dad) can either get on that train or go wherever he thinks undisciplined petulance will pay off for him. There have been a million kids who burst into the junior ranks and are now working in an office somewhere. Maybe Sancho has the talent to avoid that and play somewhere at the top level. But, if he wants that to be at City, he needs to give himself a slap.
At this point, given the clear goals of the club ownership, the team they have put in place to do the business...and the business they have done to date...it would be foolish to second guess decisions they are making. That day has to be reserved for the future, if this strategy doesn't pay the dividends that seem almost inevitable given the quality of football we saw at times last season and have been treated to during the past two games against the #1 team in Spain and #2 team in England last season. Any other preseason, a "Typical City" preseason would have seen those two results being reversed and Vity on the receiving end of those two spankings.
The future is Blue...and Jadon (and his Dad) can either get on that train or go wherever he thinks undisciplined petulance will pay off for him. There have been a million kids who burst into the junior ranks and are now working in an office somewhere. Maybe Sancho has the talent to avoid that and play somewhere at the top level. But, if he wants that to be at City, he needs to give himself a slap.
Well saidSancho and his Dad are learning that City is the place to grow and develop, not the place to get your £10M contract for your 18th birthday! Pep is in COMPLETE control of thissquad and the development of the youngsters on the fringe. He has earned that privilege and is trusted by the powers that be. So, if Sancho wants to buckle down and do the REAL WORK NEEDED to become a Premier League player in a squad of £50M talent in every position, then he needs to get his finger out and show he is in that ball park. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't yet!
At this point, given the clear goals of the club ownership, the team they have put in place to do the business...and the business they have done to date...it would be foolish to second guess decisions they are making. That day has to be reserved for the future, if this strategy doesn't pay the dividends that seem almost inevitable given the quality of football we saw at times last season and have been treated to during the past two games against the #1 team in Spain and #2 team in England last season. Any other preseason, a "Typical City" preseason would have seen those two results being reversed and Vity on the receiving end of those two spankings.
The future is Blue...and Jadon (and his Dad) can either get on that train or go wherever he thinks undisciplined petulance will pay off for him. There have been a million kids who burst into the junior ranks and are now working in an office somewhere. Maybe Sancho has the talent to avoid that and play somewhere at the top level. But, if he wants that to be at City, he needs to give himself a slap.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
What chance does an academy player have to prove he's a better option than a first team player if he can never play in the first team until he can prove that.
It's like companies trying to hire graduates with 5 years of experience.
So Roberts' brilliant loan spell is worthless because he's had a couple of games when he hasn't impressed? I didn't manage to watch the preseason games but I understand Foden didn't do much against Real or Spurs?
And Roberts can only play against what's in front of him. Premier League sides don't tend to take risks to develop their competitors youth players for some reason. There's a reason we can only loan to Celtic and the Eredivise and get a likelihood of first team minutes (even Girona didn't play Maffeo much). We can't send him to Celtic for two years and then blame him for only playing for Celtic when he returns.
And Foden and Diaz's preseason performances don't necessarily mean they'll be involved when the season proper begins so it's not a cheque Sancho can hypothetically bank.
So we should just play kids for the sake of it, just to prove to other kids that they'll get played for the sake of it?
Foden shone v United and played decently in the other 2 games when he appeared, Diaz had briefer cameos but also looked sparky and hungry for it.
Take your opportunities and keep proving your good enough. Show Pep you can do the job, not just play nice football against weaker opposition. It's about building trust and realising you have the potential of a 15-20 year career and that most players have to go through the shit at that age to make it in their early 20s.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
I agree 100%. My understanding is that he's represented by his dad and personally I think he's had Spurs and Arsenal filling his head with nonsense. When a 17 year old doesn't want to at least try and fight his way to the top at the most upwardly mobile club in world football, with the best manager, playing the best brand of football, and surrounded by superb technicians that he could learn a lot from, then as far as I'm concerned he can get bent. Pep did absolutely the right thing snubbing him from the American tour. It's up to Sancho now if he wants to get his head down and fight, but personally I don't think he has any intention of doing so and that he'll leave the club
like I said before, if Sancho believed his own hype and had the mentality that he is actually good enough for the first team at some point, he'd sign the contract tonight.
Fact is he doesn't believe his own hype and wants the easy option of being given it. If he continues down that path then he'll quickly find at every club you have to earn it on merit, not just City, and he'll waste a lot of his potential in the process.
People who want cast-iron guarantees can be smart manipulators, but they also reek of people who don't believe they can retain the perks on merit so want the easy option.
If he doesn't believe he's good enough to break into the first team at (blow our own trumpet) the best club in the country with the best squad and manager, then he'd be weeded out soon enough. It'll just be at 17 not 21.
If he thought he was good enough, he'd have been in the US. Doesn't have the balls to back his words.
So we should just play kids for the sake of it, just to prove to other kids that they'll get played for the sake of it?
Foden shone v United and played decently in the other 2 games when he appeared, Diaz had briefer cameos but also looked sparky and hungry for it.
Take your opportunities and keep proving your good enough. Show Pep you can do the job, not just play nice football against weaker opposition. It's about building trust and realising you have the potential of a 15-20 year career and that most players have to go through the shit at that age to make it in their early 20s.
No, we should play kids when they're outperforming everyone at the level they're at; especially if their first team counterparts aren't doing much. In the past few seasons we've had Demichelis used over Denayer, Fernando and Delph bought in to play bit part roles over Byrne and Evans, Navas and Nolito used over Roberts/Barker. The senior players listed are far from game changers and the kids, with the massive confidence boost that would have come with the first team chance, may have been useful.
It's all well and good saying take your opportunities, but Sancho probably thinks his first proper opportunities at City will come when he's 20/21 and he thinks he can get those opportunities sooner elsewhere. I don't disagree with him - I think our academy is fantastic if you're under 18 but we're shit at the next, crucial stage of giving those excelling in the youth sides or on loan first team chances.
if you were in city u18s squad last year and now playing for the 23s team how would you see your future for the next 3 years not being sancho , Diaz , foden, would you try to leave if next year a league 1 or championship club wanted to buy you ?No, we should play kids when they're outperforming everyone at the level they're at; especially if their first team counterparts aren't doing much. In the past few seasons we've had Demichelis used over Denayer, Fernando and Delph bought in to play bit part roles over Byrne and Evans, Navas and Nolito used over Roberts/Barker. The senior players listed are far from game changers and the kids, with the massive confidence boost that would have come with the first team chance, may have been useful.
It's all well and good saying take your opportunities, but Sancho probably thinks his first proper opportunities at City will come when he's 20/21 and he thinks he can get those opportunities sooner elsewhere. I don't disagree with him - I think our academy is fantastic if you're under 18 but we're shit at the next, crucial stage of giving those excelling in the youth sides or on loan first team chances.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
No, we should play kids when they're outperforming everyone at the level they're at; especially if their first team counterparts aren't doing much. In the past few seasons we've had Demichelis used over Denayer, Fernando and Delph bought in to play bit part roles over Byrne and Evans, Navas and Nolito used over Roberts/Barker. The senior players listed are far from game changers and the kids, with the massive confidence boost that would have come with the first team chance, may have been useful.
It's all well and good saying take your opportunities, but Sancho probably thinks his first proper opportunities at City will come when he's 20/21 and he thinks he can get those opportunities sooner elsewhere. I don't disagree with him - I think our academy is fantastic if you're under 18 but we're shit at the next, crucial stage of giving those excelling in the youth sides or on loan first team chances.
you have to trust Pep over Pellegrini, simple as. If Sancho thought he was good enough to play for Man City, he wouldn't give up on the dream at 17. People who make it don't give up because the road ahead looks competitive and difficult.
players aged 20 or under used by Pep at Barca:
Bojan 115 apps.
Busquets 191 apps.
Pedro 167 apps.
Victor Sanchez 12 apps.
Bartra 8 apps.
J Dos Santos 19 apps.
Thiago 65 apps.
Muniesa 3 apps.
Victor Vazquez 3 apps.
Andreu Fontas 16 apps.
Sergi Roberto 7 apps.
Montoya 12 apps.
Deulofeu 2 apps.
Cuenca 30 apps.
Rafinha 2 apps.
Tello 22 apps.
at Bayern a couple of sporadic appearers plus Gaudino 11 apps and Hojbjerg 23 apps, then again Bayern's academy hasn't shown to be up to snuff this decade.
The advantage Barca have? Barca B. Pep could call up a player for a weekend but the rest of the time they could play domestic league football under Barca coaches. We'll try the best patch-up in Girona, but players need to understand the difference but also understand if they're good enough, Pep is proven to give them time. He needs to cement his own position in the short-term with a title win, and our academy has to catch up with first team standards. It's getting there, but Foden's generation is the first you can really say has a chance, the rest had promising players but always had something lacking, which their careers have shown.
You either believe in him and the long-term project, and in your own ability to make it, or you leave, and decide what memory you'll have of your decision.
if you were in city u18s squad last year and now playing for the 23s team how would you see your future for the next 3 years not being sancho , Diaz , foden, would you try to leave if next year a league 1 or championship club wanted to buy you ?
It would depend on a number of things - my age, how highly I rated myself in comparison to others in the team, how much I felt I was rated by the club, etc.
you have to trust Pep over Pellegrini, simple as. If Sancho thought he was good enough to play for Man City, he wouldn't give up on the dream at 17. People who make it don't give up because the road ahead looks competitive and difficult.
players aged 20 or under used by Pep at Barca:
Bojan 115 apps.
Busquets 191 apps.
Pedro 167 apps.
Victor Sanchez 12 apps.
Bartra 8 apps.
J Dos Santos 19 apps.
Thiago 65 apps.
Muniesa 3 apps.
Victor Vazquez 3 apps.
Andreu Fontas 16 apps.
Sergi Roberto 7 apps.
Montoya 12 apps.
Deulofeu 2 apps.
Cuenca 30 apps.
Rafinha 2 apps.
Tello 22 apps.
at Bayern a couple of sporadic appearers plus Gaudino 11 apps and Hojbjerg 23 apps, then again Bayern's academy hasn't shown to be up to snuff this decade.
The advantage Barca have? Barca B. Pep could call up a player for a weekend but the rest of the time they could play domestic league football under Barca coaches. We'll try the best patch-up in Girona, but players need to understand the difference but also understand if they're good enough, Pep is proven to give them time. He needs to cement his own position in the short-term with a title win, and our academy has to catch up with first team standards. It's getting there, but Foden's generation is the first you can really say has a chance, the rest had promising players but always had something lacking, which their careers have shown.
You either believe in him and the long-term project, and in your own ability to make it, or you leave, and decide what memory you'll have of your decision.
I'm a huge admirer of Pep but feel he could have done more last season with young players and should make a similar long term commitment to the club that he's expecting academy players to make. If Sancho signed up for 3 years then Pep's gone when he's coming to the end of that if he doesn't renew.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
I'm a huge admirer of Pep but feel he could have done more last season with young players and should make a similar long term commitment to the club that he's expecting academy players to make. If Sancho signed up for 3 years then Pep's gone when he's coming to the end of that if he doesn't renew.
He couldn't rely on a City B, and evidently the players he fancies are only just able to break through in friendlies because they're so young. Everyone needs a lot more patience.
He couldn't rely on a City B, and evidently the players he fancies are only just able to break through in friendlies because they're so young. Everyone needs a lot more patience.
But these young players don't feel they need to have patience when they can move elsewhere and play top level first team football much sooner. Sancho is not from Manchester and is not a City fan, so it must be tempted if the likes of Spurs, Monaco, Dortmund, Leipzig, etc. come knocking and say he can be a first team player in a decent domestic league and in continental competition in the next two seasons. At City, he knows the likely avenue is being on loan at Celtic or in Holland with no guarantee that he'd be given a shot at City at the end of it. The first option is far more appealing to a top young player IMO, and there'll be no shortage of clubs at that level making those sort of promises to Sancho.
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
But these young players don't feel they need to have patience when they can move elsewhere and play top level first team football much sooner. Sancho is not from Manchester and is not a City fan, so it must be tempted if the likes of Spurs, Monaco, Dortmund, Leipzig, etc. come knocking and say he can be a first team player in a decent domestic league and in continental competition in the next two seasons. At City, he knows the likely avenue is being on loan at Celtic or in Holland with no guarantee that he'd be given a shot at City at the end of it. The first option is far more appealing to a top young player IMO, and there'll be no shortage of clubs at that level making those sort of promises to Sancho.
they won't though, because an absolutely tiny minority play regularly at 17/18 at any meaningful level. It's fantasy, particularly with an attitude like Sancho's.
r.soleofsalford
Well-Known Member
No, we should play kids when they're outperforming everyone at the level they're at; especially if their first team counterparts aren't doing much. In the past few seasons we've had Demichelis used over Denayer, Fernando and Delph bought in to play bit part roles over Byrne and Evans, Navas and Nolito used over Roberts/Barker. The senior players listed are far from game changers and the kids, with the massive confidence boost that would have come with the first team chance, may have been useful.
It's all well and good saying take your opportunities, but Sancho probably thinks his first proper opportunities at City will come when he's 20/21 and he thinks he can get those opportunities sooner elsewhere. I don't disagree with him - I think our academy is fantastic if you're under 18 but we're shit at the next, crucial stage of giving those excelling in the youth sides or on loan first team chances.
IMHO we havent had players who werent good enough, now we have 18 year old who are good enough to be given a shot
they won't though, because an absolutely tiny minority play regularly at 17/18 at any meaningful level. It's fantasy, particularly with an attitude like Sancho's.
But Sancho believes he's in that tiny minority. He's been voted the Golden Player of the Euro U17s, previously won by Rooney, Fabregas, Kroos and Gotze. And if City want to have a really world class academy, we'll hopefully be producing more players in that tiny minority who have the potential to go on to be some of the world's best.
IMHO we had had player who werent good enough, now we have 18 year old who are good enough to be given a shot
I think that's bollocks, particularly to be given a chance here or there. Barker, at his best in the academy, was every bit as good as Sancho is now IMO and certainly deserved a few first team opportunities. Same with Denayer when he returned from Celtic on a par with Virgil van Dijk and signed up to a long term contract.
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