Veganism

mccity said:
Why does it matter if someone's a vegan? It's been proven healthy, if not requiring a little extra work, so let em do it right?

There are obviously some annoying preachy types who I hate as much as you all, but it's not worth stooping to that level as far as I'm concerned.
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Not one person on here has suggested that a vegan shouldn't be a vegan. It's been entirely the other way around.
 
Unless I've missed something, nobody has yet said how veggies/vegans get the essential vitamin B12.
Is this vitamin only available from animal/fish products, or is there a vegetable source for it?
If it's not available in vegetable form anywhere, then the argument about veg diets being totally natural
for humans is bollox, if it is, then their arguments may carry some weight, although no fucker will
ever stop me from my carnivorous scoffings.
 
Just been checking and it appears vegans need supplements of B12, as it isn't in plant based foods, unless
someone can contradict this. So, if this is the case there's no way that veganism can be a naturally complete diet for us,
and that they should immediately throw some pig and cow on the barbie (once the weather brightens up).
 
FantasyIreland said:
@Juan King

Thanks for taking the time with that reply.Interesting from the aspect that you're fortunate enough to be in a position that allows for so much effort with your lifestyle/diet.From my perspective it looks adequate for the average joe but far too low on complete protein if your regularly stressing/training muscles.
It obviously works for you,so fair play.
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Regarding the protein thing, my diet isn't based around weight training, and is adequate protein wise for my needs. For healthy adults the recommendation is to eat 0.8g/per kg of body weight/day. To compensate for the decreased digestibility of the protein in many plant foods, a number of experts in vegan nutrition support a slightly higher recommended minimum protein intake for vegan adults of 0.9 g/ kg/ day. This is easily achievable. I had breakfast today that contained 40 - 45g of protein.

How much protein do you need currently for your training? I read "strength athletes on any diet require extra protein, vegans are advised to consume 1.3 to 1.9 g/ kg/ day, particularly during the stage when they’re adding muscle tissue". There are vegan athletes, body builders, MMA fighters etc who get all the protein that they need, so it is achievable. Some report benefits to their training since they went plant based, such as needing less recovery time and actually being able to train more. There's a wealth of info about vegan body building/athletes online.
 
calum down said:
i have to say,
if i did eat meat,
i would go for the fucking lot...
from guinea pigs to dogs,
cats to orangutans and et al,
i'd want to try everything.

meat eaters who distinguish between edible and cute-faced-non-edible confuse me.
i'm of a mind that either you eat meat or you don't.
then again, i'm very simplistic.
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In that respect we are a product of our society i think. I was taught to love all animals but that we do eat some of them. I do remember my mum having to put my mind at rest about the slaughtering process, as much as it can be anyway. I did see the irony though when my mum would say 'oh you dirty swine' if she saw a food delicacy that we in the west consider a pet on tv or something. I didn't like it but accepted it and thought 'maybe they think we are weird for eating cows', based on the reverence for them in India that i knew existed.

Anyway chopper has cost me another few hundred quid in vet bills this week so i can't eat him as i could not afford a chopper steak. Like those kobe cattle, he gets good food and belly tickles galore + a bottle of peroni when he feels like it, im not rich enough to buy that kind of posh stuff. I would have to order the pigeon road kill a-la maggots :-D
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Unless I've missed something, nobody has yet said how veggies/vegans get the essential vitamin B12.
Is this vitamin only available from animal/fish products, or is there a vegetable source for it?
If it's not available in vegetable form anywhere, then the argument about veg diets being totally natural
for humans is bollox, if it is, then their arguments may carry some weight, although no fucker will
ever stop me from my carnivorous scoffings.
Click to expand...
B12 occurs naturally in water. Of course, the water supply these days is thoroughly filtered. This is a good thing. However, the downside is that the B12 is filtered out along with everything else.
 
I have seen Apple users scoff at Windows users and vice versa. Linux users are usually like the Vegans always telling testifying and professing.
 
Juan King said:
Regarding the protein thing, my diet isn't based around weight training, and is adequate protein wise for my needs. For healthy adults the recommendation is to eat 0.8g/per kg of body weight/day. To compensate for the decreased digestibility of the protein in many plant foods, a number of experts in vegan nutrition support a slightly higher recommended minimum protein intake for vegan adults of 0.9 g/ kg/ day. This is easily achievable. I had breakfast today that contained 40 - 45g of protein.

How much protein do you need currently for your training? I read "strength athletes on any diet require extra protein, vegans are advised to consume 1.3 to 1.9 g/ kg/ day, particularly during the stage when they’re adding muscle tissue". There are vegan athletes, body builders, MMA fighters etc who get all the protein that they need, so it is achievable. Some report benefits to their training since they went plant based, such as needing less recovery time and actually being able to train more. There's a wealth of info about vegan body building/athletes online.
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Indeed,there are some very succesful athletes who claim to rely on a vegan diet,although many also claim they dont use PED's either.

As an unwritten rule the general consensus for a bodybuilder is approx 30g of (complete)protein consumed every 3 hours,spread over 6-8 meals.This is supplemented with either a fat or carb source dependant on requirement/goal.

In all honesty,although i keep hearing people proclaiming the advantages of a Vegan existence,i could never do such as the reality is,i enjoy my food too much.
 
SWP's back said:
Not one person on here has suggested that a vegan shouldn't be a vegan. It's been entirely the other way around.
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That might be the desire to help fellow blues avoid disease and cancer making them preach in such a selfless way.

How dare they!
 
my Dad ate all sorts of crap food and died aged 92 .....Uncle smoked etc ate crap ....lasted to 85

All this diet nonsense is garbage..............unless you're a proper fat ****
 
Some nice quotes from some notable names.

George Bernard Shaw: "Animals are my friends..and I don't eat my friends."

Thomas Edison: "Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."

Da Vinci: "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."

Gandhi: "Ethically they had arrived at the conclusion that man's supremacy over lower animals meant not that the former should prey upon the latter, but that the higher should protect the lower, and that there should be mutual aid between the two as between man and man. They had also brought out the truth that man eats not for enjoyment but to live."

Benjamin Franklin: "My refusing to eat meat occasioned inconveniency, and I have been frequently chided for my singularity. But my light repast allows for greater progress, for greater clearness of head and quicker comprehension."

Charles Darwin: "There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties . . . The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery."

Leo Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral."

Mark Twain: "Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he’s the one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot."

 
MellowJoe said:
Some nice quotes from some notable names.

George Bernard Shaw: "Animals are my friends..and I don't eat my friends."

Thomas Edison: "Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."

Da Vinci: "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."

Gandhi: "Ethically they had arrived at the conclusion that man's supremacy over lower animals meant not that the former should prey upon the latter, but that the higher should protect the lower, and that there should be mutual aid between the two as between man and man. They had also brought out the truth that man eats not for enjoyment but to live."

Benjamin Franklin: "My refusing to eat meat occasioned inconveniency, and I have been frequently chided for my singularity. But my light repast allows for greater progress, for greater clearness of head and quicker comprehension."

Charles Darwin: "There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties . . . The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery."

Leo Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral."

Mark Twain: "Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he’s the one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot."
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No quote from Morrissey?
Truly disappointed....
 
MellowJoe said:
Some nice quotes from some notable names.

George Bernard Shaw: "Animals are my friends..and I don't eat my friends."

Thomas Edison: "Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."

Da Vinci: "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."

Gandhi: "Ethically they had arrived at the conclusion that man's supremacy over lower animals meant not that the former should prey upon the latter, but that the higher should protect the lower, and that there should be mutual aid between the two as between man and man. They had also brought out the truth that man eats not for enjoyment but to live."

Benjamin Franklin: "My refusing to eat meat occasioned inconveniency, and I have been frequently chided for my singularity. But my light repast allows for greater progress, for greater clearness of head and quicker comprehension."

Charles Darwin: "There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties . . . The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery."

Leo Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral."

Mark Twain: "Of all the creatures, man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he’s the one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain. The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot."
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"OH MY GOD this brisket is so juicy and tender"


Adam Richman, Man vs Food
 
mancityvstoke said:
my Dad ate all sorts of crap food and died aged 92 .....Uncle smoked etc ate crap ....lasted to 85

All this diet nonsense is garbage..............unless you're a proper fat ****
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more, my Grandad ate a full breakfast of three fried eggs and bacon, black pudding, with slabs
of bread dipped in the frying pan, drank 10 pints of mild a day, smoked 30 Capstan Full Strength, and he lived
till he was 28.
 
Tanzeylee said:
"OH MY GOD this brisket is so juicy and tender"


Adam Richman, Man vs Food
Click to expand...


H.G Wells: "In all the round world of Utopia there is no meat. There used to be, but now we cannot stand the thought of slaughterhouses. And it is impossible to find anyone who will hew a dead ox or pig. I can still remember as a boy the rejoicings over the closing of the last slaughterhouse."

Arthur Conan Doyle: "At the moment our human world is based on the suffering and destruction of millions of non-humans. To perceive this and to do something to change it in personal and public ways is to undergo a change of perception akin to a religious conversion. Nothing can ever be seen in quite the same way again because once you have admitted the terror and pain of other species you will, unless you resist conversion, be always aware of the endless permutations of suffering that support our society."

Albert Einstein: "It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind."

Carl Sagan: "Humans–who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals–have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and “animals” is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them–without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."


 
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