Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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Why oh why can't Brexiters understand this?
It is an existential situation - we NEED to be a fully committed member of the EU.
British people deserve better than to be returned to the 'upstairs, downstairs ' regime of Victorian times by an abrasive, childish , greedy, grasping and thuggish ruling minority.
 
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blueinsa said:
We should rename this thread the Len and Fumble show ;-)
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This isn't the Brexit/Article 50 thread, it's the post EU Referendum thread in sheep's clothing. We should rename the thread that! :)

So far, nothing posted on this thread has any substance or gives anyone any understanding of what's going on. Viewpoints are either doom and gloom or unfeasibly optimistic, and this is a criticism of both sides.

People post 'sources' from either a pro-EU or pro-Brexit media source and then argue that it gives a clear reflection on the talk procedings. Don't understand it? Then you're stupid. Argue against it? Strawman defence! Then it soon boils down to ad hominems and we continue when the next bit of 'Brexit News' is announced. Occasionally the odd bit of information comes through but it's rarely from a neutral persepctive. "It has to be true, the INDEPENDENT posted it!" You mean the pro-EU, anti-Brexit 'news'paper that has said nothing positive about the Brexit talks because it inherantly feels the whole process itself is negative and damaging? Yet i'm supposed to listen to their opinion, value it and take it as honest, truthful and helpful information as a reflection on how the talks are proceeding?

Or how about one of the others "See, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said today that talks are going well!" Well he would wouldn't he; he's pro-Brexit. Same vitriol, same discussions, same personalities clashing that their opinion is right. If the usual suspects think people read this thread for their sage 'negotiations knowledge and experience they share to educate the masses' i've some humbling news for them; it's because we're bored and fancy a laugh, usually at them going nuts at someone else for disagreeing with them. It's International weekend, what can I say.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
This isn't the Brexit/Article 50 thread, it's the post EU Referendum thread in sheep's clothing. We should rename the thread that! :)

So far, nothing posted on this thread has any substance or gives anyone any understanding of what's going on. Viewpoints are either doom and gloom or unfeasibly optimistic, and this is a criticism of both sides.

People post 'sources' from either a pro-EU or pro-Brexit media source and then argue that it gives a clear reflection on the talk procedings. Don't understand it? Then you're stupid. Argue against it? Strawman defence! Then it soon boils down to ad hominems and we continue when the next bit of 'Brexit News' is announced. Occasionally the odd bit of information comes through but it's rarely from a neutral persepctive. "It has to be true, the INDEPENDENT posted it!" You mean the pro-EU, anti-Brexit 'news'paper that has said nothing positive about the Brexit talks because it inherantly feels the whole process itself is negative and damaging? Yet i'm supposed to listen to their opinion, value it and take it as honest, truthful and helpful information as a reflection on how the talks are proceeding?

Or how about one of the others "See, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said today that talks are going well!" Well he would wouldn't he; he's pro-Brexit. Same vitriol, same discussions, same personalities clashing that their opinion is right. If the usual suspects think people read this thread for their sage 'negotiations knowledge and experience they share to educate the masses' i've some humbling news for them; it's because we're bored and fancy a laugh, usually at them going nuts at someone else for disagreeing with them. It's International weekend, what can I say.
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It's a very educational thread; just recently I've learned that 64-36 is practically 50-50.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
This isn't the Brexit/Article 50 thread, it's the post EU Referendum thread in sheep's clothing. We should rename the thread that! :)

So far, nothing posted on this thread has any substance or gives anyone any understanding of what's going on. Viewpoints are either doom and gloom or unfeasibly optimistic, and this is a criticism of both sides.

People post 'sources' from either a pro-EU or pro-Brexit media source and then argue that it gives a clear reflection on the talk procedings. Don't understand it? Then you're stupid. Argue against it? Strawman defence! Then it soon boils down to ad hominems and we continue when the next bit of 'Brexit News' is announced. Occasionally the odd bit of information comes through but it's rarely from a neutral persepctive. "It has to be true, the INDEPENDENT posted it!" You mean the pro-EU, anti-Brexit 'news'paper that has said nothing positive about the Brexit talks because it inherantly feels the whole process itself is negative and damaging? Yet i'm supposed to listen to their opinion, value it and take it as honest, truthful and helpful information as a reflection on how the talks are proceeding?

Or how about one of the others "See, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said today that talks are going well!" Well he would wouldn't he; he's pro-Brexit. Same vitriol, same discussions, same personalities clashing that their opinion is right. If the usual suspects think people read this thread for their sage 'negotiations knowledge and experience they share to educate the masses' i've some humbling news for them; it's because we're bored and fancy a laugh, usually at them going nuts at someone else for disagreeing with them. It's International weekend, what can I say.
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Think this is the first time I have even remotely agreed with you. That said this the off topic section of a fucking football forum. It's not a fucking Think Tank.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You love to bet, for all of us.

Bit by bit Brexit is slowly being dismantled, yet you refuse to see it.

The idea that the UK would be discussing a transition period would have been unthinkable a year ago, now it is more a question of how long.

The UK will be in the Customs Union permanently. It will stay in the Single Market. Immigration levels will remain as they are. Reparations to the EU... All now being discussed.

Where was all this 12 months ago?

frog_pot2.jpg


On the balance of probability we'll still leave, we're incapable as a nation, saddled with the political class we have, of reversing such a calamitous decision, that'll be for future generations. But whatever emerges from this tawdry process I can guarantee it'll be unrecognisable from the sunny uplands and land of hope and glory promised by the likes of Johnson, Fox, Davis and Farage.
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Sorry mate, your credibility was dismantled a few pages ago, your assumptions are simply that, assumptions.
You're not prepared to back up your apparently firmly held view, about single markets, customs unions, immigration at all.
So anything you put up here will be skimmed, you clearly have no faith in what you say.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
This isn't the Brexit/Article 50 thread, it's the post EU Referendum thread in sheep's clothing. We should rename the thread that! :)

So far, nothing posted on this thread has any substance or gives anyone any understanding of what's going on. Viewpoints are either doom and gloom or unfeasibly optimistic, and this is a criticism of both sides.

People post 'sources' from either a pro-EU or pro-Brexit media source and then argue that it gives a clear reflection on the talk procedings. Don't understand it? Then you're stupid. Argue against it? Strawman defence! Then it soon boils down to ad hominems and we continue when the next bit of 'Brexit News' is announced. Occasionally the odd bit of information comes through but it's rarely from a neutral persepctive. "It has to be true, the INDEPENDENT posted it!" You mean the pro-EU, anti-Brexit 'news'paper that has said nothing positive about the Brexit talks because it inherantly feels the whole process itself is negative and damaging? Yet i'm supposed to listen to their opinion, value it and take it as honest, truthful and helpful information as a reflection on how the talks are proceeding?

Or how about one of the others "See, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said today that talks are going well!" Well he would wouldn't he; he's pro-Brexit. Same vitriol, same discussions, same personalities clashing that their opinion is right. If the usual suspects think people read this thread for their sage 'negotiations knowledge and experience they share to educate the masses' i've some humbling news for them; it's because we're bored and fancy a laugh, usually at them going nuts at someone else for disagreeing with them. It's International weekend, what can I say.
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Well said indeed.

The bottom line is that the usual suspects from the Remainer side are still fighting the pre23/06/16 fight and hoping for a reversal.

They do not post anything that is considered - with regard to the negotiations - just leap on anything that the pro-EU papers put out. They come across as desperately in denial that the UK is actually leaving the EU and deluded in that they seem to think that what they post has 'gravitas' when rather it is generally simply nothing other than the 'obvious tripe' regurgitated from the Pro-EU ambassadors. They seem to think that it makes them sound 'informed' - they need the ability to look in a mirror and read their posts with an objective point of view.

They cannot do that because they are stuck in the loop of their limited thinking and they cannot get beyond the view that: EU = all things good - Brexit = all things bad.

Whilst of course Leave voters might also be guilty of emphasising any anti-EU news - it seems a very small percentage set against the bollocks from the usual suspects - who just seem to crave failure for and damage to the UK to make themselves appear 'sage like'.

You are right this has not ever been a Brexit negotiation thread - because, IMO, the usual suspects cannot let it be so.
 
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Grassland Blue said:
Why oh why can't Brexiters understand this?
It is an existential situation - we NEED to be a fully committed member of the EU.
British people deserve better than to be returned to the 'upstairs, downstairs ' regime of Victorian times by an abrasive, childish , greedy, grasping and thuggish ruling minority.
Click to expand...
Jean-Claude-Juncker-President-543064.jpg
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
This isn't the Brexit/Article 50 thread, it's the post EU Referendum thread in sheep's clothing. We should rename the thread that! :)

So far, nothing posted on this thread has any substance or gives anyone any understanding of what's going on. Viewpoints are either doom and gloom or unfeasibly optimistic, and this is a criticism of both sides.

People post 'sources' from either a pro-EU or pro-Brexit media source and then argue that it gives a clear reflection on the talk procedings. Don't understand it? Then you're stupid. Argue against it? Strawman defence! Then it soon boils down to ad hominems and we continue when the next bit of 'Brexit News' is announced. Occasionally the odd bit of information comes through but it's rarely from a neutral persepctive. "It has to be true, the INDEPENDENT posted it!" You mean the pro-EU, anti-Brexit 'news'paper that has said nothing positive about the Brexit talks because it inherantly feels the whole process itself is negative and damaging? Yet i'm supposed to listen to their opinion, value it and take it as honest, truthful and helpful information as a reflection on how the talks are proceeding?

Or how about one of the others "See, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said today that talks are going well!" Well he would wouldn't he; he's pro-Brexit. Same vitriol, same discussions, same personalities clashing that their opinion is right. If the usual suspects think people read this thread for their sage 'negotiations knowledge and experience they share to educate the masses' i've some humbling news for them; it's because we're bored and fancy a laugh, usually at them going nuts at someone else for disagreeing with them. It's International weekend, what can I say.
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Completely agree mate.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Sorry mate, your credibility was dismantled a few pages ago, your assumptions are simply that, assumptions.
You're not prepared to back up your apparently firmly held view, about single markets, customs unions, immigration at all.
So anything you put up here will be skimmed, you clearly have no faith in what you say.
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You're having a conversation with yourself. At least there you might find unanimity, in the real world your half arsed assumptions are turning to shit.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Well said indeed.

The bottom line is that the usual suspects from the Remainer side are still fighting the pre23/06/16 fight and hoping for the a reversal.

They do not post anything that is considered - with regard to the negotiations - just leap on anything that the pro-EU papers put out. They come across as desperately in denial that the UK is actually leaving the EU and deluded in that they seem to think that what they post has 'gravitas' when rather it is generally simply nothing other than the 'obvious tripe' regurgitated from the Pro-EU ambassadors. They seem to think that it makes them sound 'informed' - they need the ability to look in a mirror and read their posts with an objective point of view.

They cannot do that because they are stuck in the loop of their limited thinking and they cannot get beyond the view that: EU = all things good - Brexit = all things bad.

Whilst of course Leave voters might also be guilty of emphasising any anti-EU news - it seems a very small percentage set against the bollocks from the usual suspects - who just seem to crave failure for and damage to the UK to make themselves appear 'sage like'.

You are right this has not ever been a Brexit negotiation thread - because, IMO, the usual suspects cannot let it be so.
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LOL....You of all people.

Page after page of your rambling hush, hush nonsense, all your predictions turned to dust and yet still you charge on in the face of grapeshot and cannon fire..

Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.

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vonkeynotvenky said:
The trade deals we make will be varied and will be with who we choose to make them with therein lies the difference. We have always made deals to get trade deals it doesn't mean we aren't making them though. The slogan that Brexit is surrendering control is a nonsense mate and you know it.
What puzzles me more and more each day is how the left and the liberals support globalism, maybe it's because more people from the left and liberals are getting what they want out of globalism ie cheaper goods globe trotting vlogging capabilities and aren't really in it for the ideals those politics extol.
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eRRR No.......the trade deals will be with those who they choose to make them with and they will not be any better than the current trade deals that they have signed up to ~(So if they have an agreement with the EU already ours will not be any better) Any new partner will not negotiate better terms for us at the expense of their current agreements. It would be a disaster for them if they did


You don't really do business do you ?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
eRRR No.......the trade deals will be with those who they choose to make them with and they will not be any better than the current trade deals that they have signed up to Any new partner will not negotiate better terms for us at the expense of their current agreements. It would be a disaster for them if they did


You don't really do business do you ?
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It's like you answered a completely different post to the one of mine you quoted, positing your opinion is a bit much it shows a certain degree of arrogance. More wishy washy daydreaming with no substance, carry on.
 
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