VAR (PL introduction 2019)

geoff clipp said:
I'm all for giving VAR a chance but i do think there are still instances where offsides are questionable even with the technology. Video can confirm if somebody is in an offside position, but it would still be a matter of opinion in instances where you have to decide whether or not they're interfering with play. If Sane had been in an offside position yesterday there would probably have been more debate on whether the flag should have gone up.
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as i have already said you are putting two together to make one, interfering with play only comes into play once a player is deemed offside, the deciding if a player is offside with today's tech is clear cut
 
tonea2003 said:
they have to make a decision in the first instance and why wouldn't they check it to make sure one way or another, that was such a close call it would of been negligent not to check it if the technology was there. you really can't slag mason off in this instance, he was relying on his lino who to be fair put his flag up immediately.
as far as i know there is no rule that says give the benefit to the attack in close calls.
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I don't understand your reply regarding what I posted.

The goal should have stood & most referees would not disallow it, as they would be uncertain as to whether Sané is interfering with play, so would give the goal rather than guess & disallow it.

The point I am making (let's forget Sané now, to make it easier) is that with v.a.r. most such situations would be referred.

In recent seasons, there have been a number of goals City have scored, with a player in an 'offside' position between the keeper & the ball.

The decision on whether a player is 'interfering' with the goalkeeper is purely an on the spot decision, given by the officials at the time. It is not 'black & white' it is down to their interpretation.

Some say one thing, others say something different, about the same incident.

With v.a.r. a bloke in a box decides whether to disallow it or not (remember we are not talking about Sané here, we are talking about other goals City have been given).

Any of those goals could be chalked off on the day. But the next incident, the same v.a.r. referee may decide to award a goal, in almost identical circumstances. Because: they do.

They are doing it now. We have seen Fernandinho banned for pushing someone & Lukaku let off for kicking someone in the bollocks.

This inconsistency, will pervade every v.a.r. decision. Forever.

They are not fit, to be in charge of such a system.
 
tonea2003 said:
therefore we would know as the constant analysis we get these days
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You've quite literally failed to grasp the point. I shall repeat it again, but more slowly: Some offsides are arguable and not clear cut. Even after replays. Even with a line across the screen. Some offside decisions cause arguments as to whether it was or wasn't irrespective of what decision was taken. You seem to imagine this is completely binary. It isn't.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I don't understand your reply regarding what I posted.

The goal should have stood & most referees would not disallow it, as they would be uncertain as to whether Sané is interfering with play, so would give the goal rather than guess & disallow it.

The point I am making (let's forget Sané now, to make it easier) is that with v.a.r. most such situations would be referred.

In recent seasons, there have been a number of goals City have scored, with a player in an 'offside' position between the keeper & the ball.

The decision on whether a player is 'interfering' with the goalkeeper is purely an on the spot decision, given by the officials at the time. It is not 'black & white' it is down to their interpretation.

Some say one thing, others say something different, about the same incident.

With v.a.r. a bloke in a box decides whether to disallow it or not (remember we are not talking about Sané here, we are talking about other goals City have been given).

Any of those goals could be chalked off on the day. But the next incident, the same v.a.r. referee may decide to award a goal, in almost identical circumstances. Because: they do.

They are doing it now. We have seen Fernandinho banned for pushing someone & Lukaku let off for kicking someone in the bollocks.

This inconsistency, will pervade every v.a.r. decision. Forever.

They are not fit, to be in charge of such a system.
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i'm not arguing about the incompetence of officials or their perceived bias, what i am saying is as proved in the liverpool game, they make a decision in the first instance then check it, i don't see what the problem is
for every lukaku there is a ashley young who got a three match ban.
i agree in the past on the spot the decisions had to be made, that was the only way, but now they have the where with all to check their on the spot decisions
with VAR all those city goals you refer to would be checked,but from what you are intimating they would still give mess up even if we at home can see it
 
Henkeman said:
You've quite literally failed to grasp the point. I shall repeat it again, but more slowly: Some offsides are arguable and not clear cut. Even after replays. Even with a line across the screen. Some offside decisions cause arguments as to whether it was or wasn't irrespective of what decision was taken. You seem to imagine this is completely binary. It isn't.
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and i'll repeat slowly, it is, the law on offside is clear cut and using that in conjunction with technology we have available today there is no reason not to see if a player is in an offside position or not at any given time.
i'll gladly be referred to an example
 
tonea2003 said:
i'm not arguing about the incompetence of officials or their perceived bias, what i am saying is as proved in the liverpool game, they make a decision in the first instance then check it, i don't see what the problem is
for every lukaku there is a ashley young who got a three match ban.
i agree in the past on the spot the decisions had to be made, that was the only way, but now they have the where with all to check their on the spot decisions
with VAR all those city goals you refer to would be checked,but from what you are intimating they would still give mess up even if we at home can see it
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Yes.

They are going to keep giving a decent percentage of incorrect decisions with v.a.r or 'correct' decisions one week, which they don't even bother reviewing next week, etc etc.

And the teams who come out on top for big decisions, over a season, will be the same teams as now.

So basically, City fans in favour of v.a.r fall into the same catagory as Everton, Aston Villa etc fans, who voted for FFP: turkeys, looking forward to Christmas.
 
tonea2003 said:
and i'll repeat slowly, it is, the law on offside is clear cut and using that in conjunction with technology we have available today there is no reason not to see if a player is in an offside position or not at any given time.
i'll gladly be referred to an example
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This instance here with Iheanacho we can see that the ball has been played, but we have all seen similar ones, with a player in that position or a small distance either way, when the ball is on the foot of the player passing the ball & we don't see whether it's been kicked yet or not.

You have seen them, I have seen them.

In that instance, it can be interpreted either way.

If it's City & Gary Neville, & the oppo have scored, it's 'on the cusp of being offside'.

That position now, but with the ball on the toe of the passer, crops up every week somewhere.

Then once again, it will be decided by the bloke in the box, how he feels.
 
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Neville Kneville said:
Yes.

They are going to keep giving a decent percentage of incorrect decisions with v.a.r or 'correct' decisions one week, which they don't even bother reviewing next week, etc etc.

And the teams who come out on top for big decisions, over a season, will be the same teams as now.

So basically, City fans in favour of v.a.r fall into the same catagory as Everton, Aston Villa etc fans, who voted for FFP: turkeys, looking forward to Christmas.
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i don't agree with you, but time will tell,
 
Neville Kneville said:
TELEMMGLPICT000151485433_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqmLgJNm7MhjXZ7o6So8nVqYiWwtef9-us00sirsgLwog.jpeg


This instance here with Iheanacho we can see that the ball has been played, but we have all seen similar ones, with a player in that position or a small distance either way, when the ball is on the foot of the player passing the ball & we don't see whether it's been kicked yet or not.

You have seen them, I have seen them.

In that instance, it can be interpreted either way.

If it's City & Gary Neville, & the oppo have scored, it's 'on the cusp of being offside'.

That position now, but with the ball on the toe of the passer, crops up every week somewhere.

Then once again, it will be decided by the bloke in the box, how he feels.
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i think you are arguing for arguments sake now if the ball is at the foot at the player and is the other player offside then forward momentum will say he's offside
the example here is a poor one as he clearly is offside and var gave the correct decision
 
tonea2003 said:
i think you are arguing for arguments sake now if the ball is at the foot at the player and is the other player offside then forward momentum will say he's offside
the example here is apoor one as he clearly is offside and var gave the correct decision
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I explained why I gave this as an example.

But to once again repeat the simple point, we see that position, give or take a few inches either way, & the ball on the toe of the player passing it.

If the player was just kicking the ball now, Iheanacho was then two inches further forward, or further back, is he definitely on or offside ? Has he ball definitely been kicked, durring the time it took, to move those two inches ?

Surely you have seen hundreds of incidents exactly as I am describing, where people argue if it should be on or offside ?
 
Neville Kneville said:
I explained why I gave this as an example.

But to once again repeat the simple point, we see that position, give or take a few inches either way, & the ball on the toe of the player passing it.

If the player was just kicking the ball now, Iheanacho was then two inches further forward, or further back, is he definitely on or offside ? Has he ball definitely been kicked, durring the time it took, to move those two inches ?

Surely you have seen hundreds of incidents exactly as I am describing, where people argue if it should be on or offside ?
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well you either go with "Benefit of the Doubt" as a standard or for decisions where it's very tight, you decide that there isn't conclusive evidence so you stick with the onfield decision. Happens in rugby and cricket plenty of times. What it will solve is incidents like Kelechi and Sane which were clearly and demonstrably wrong. You can debate the merits of every decision to death, but technology is there to remove clear and obvious errors. If it is misused, then that is a problem of application by humans and not with the technology.
 
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