Does Pep need to be more pragmatic away from home in Europe?

[BlueAnorak]

Yes.

Monaco away, and now Liverpool away.

Sometimes shutting up shop for one game will do.

Barca away with Bayern too.

With the line up I thought . OK so Gundogan is going to play along side Fern till the Liverpool energy levels drop. How wrong was I....

 

[The slaughtered lamb]

Yes. A truly great coach has to be able to defend when required. It’s relatively easy to play attacking football against teams that are shit scared of you with the talent we, Bayern & Barca have. But sometimes you have to be able to shut up shop for 90 minutes.

Don't even have to do it for 90 mins, just do it for 60 till they get frustrated. That's what the rags do when they go there and it's served them well. Then do what we're good at for the last half hour. Can Pep be more pragmatic or is he too stubborn, time will tell.

 

[Father Paul]

We were lucky to get back to 4-3 that game as much as it hurts to say. I
'm not saying pep should park the bus. I believe in our style of play but it is possible to be pragmatic when under pressure. This is the second time where we have self destructed at anfield within 20 minutes. We need to be able to take the sting out of a game and if that means just keeping the ball better or sitting in and weathering the storm for a bit then so be it, conceding 3 goals away from home in Europe is not good enough

If we go to Anfield next season and concede three quick goals yet again serious questions will have to be asked.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Yes.

 

[The blue phantom]

Is it right that Pep has only won 4 out of 24 away knockout games in the CL?

I'm sure some **** on Talksport earlier said this. Didn't seem right.

 

[Blue Feather]

It was time to either trust Sterling and show faith in him as a key player of a winning side or, as I suspected when I heard the team news, play KDB in a wide right role if the extra central midfielder was deemed necessary. Don't know what the thinking was for last night I'm afraid....

 

[SWP's back]

No. He needs to stick to what we do best and not put an extra central midfielder on the right.

Exactly this. Shouldn’t have changed from the Everton game.

 

[Armaan]

Personally I thought Pep did exactly what he said he wasn't going to do. He changed tactics and it looked as if most of the team weren't quite sure how to play it. Hence so many bad performances.

This. Nobody knew wtf to do when Gundogan was on the pitch. By the time sterling came on it was already too late. If sterling/bernardo played we’d still be in this tie and still be favourites to go through. Pep over thought it and bottled it.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

He needs an answer to Klopp and the press, but you can clearly see where what worked at Barca with Pique, Busquets, Xavi, Alves, Iniesta falls down when it's implemented by even slightly less familiar or talented players. For 95% of games we can pull it off because of opposition weaknesses, but Klopp knows what works against it and has built a team that is designed to bugger it up. Pep either has to get the world's best technicians and calmest heads and pay whatever he needs to do it, or he has to come up with a different setup or style for those games, or we'll always lose them. Trying the Barca style without Barca players against the guy who can actually stop it, is belligerent and becoming slightly foolish.

However, our style in itself is a problem because it works in 95% of games, we've had plenty of games where we've barely had to defend and increasingly our backline and midfield haven't been defending as properly as they should be. Thus, when they get put in the unfamiliar situation like last night against the hounds they're not well-practiced, they have little experience to recall upon and haven't had to cope with it in that system and with that style. It's a serious problem for Pep that that opposition in that stadium has our secrets and can prey upon them at will.

and 2bh, the team that played last night should have been the team that started at Everton. To come out of the blocks on Saturday and play like that and gain all that confidence, only to complete negate the right hand side of our attack, was a big misstep. Pep's decision-making in CL knockouts is suspect at both Bayern and here and he needs to shake it off.

 

[pavelsrnicek]

I don't think this is entirely on Pep. Yes the change in formation, which didn't work first half at Wembley, failed again but at the same time every goal was entirely preventable. Sane's nothing ball put Liverpool on the counter attack for the first, Otamendi has to be smarter with Salah, Walker simply has to clear, three mistakes adnd we're 1-0 down and Liverpool's tails are up. Gundogan bottles a 50:50 with Milner and no one closes Oxlade- Chamberlain (again) and it's two. Otamendi has another brain fart, Laporte shows Salah inside to cross on his better foot, we have 4 defenders in the box none marking Mane and we're 3-0 down.

We can talk tactics, formations and selections but there were some pretty awful individual performances from players who have to be better than they were last night.

I don't think we say Pep needs to change his approach in away matches, when he clearly tried last night but more importantly too many players were absolutely awful.

 

[AFC60]

Is it right that Pep has only won 4 out of 24 away knockout games in the CL?

I'm sure some **** on Talksport earlier said this. Didn't seem right.

Pep is absolutely atrocious away from home in Europe. I don't know if that stat is correct but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
The fact that my club (Arsenal) beat his all-time greatest Barca team in our home leg tells you all you need to know. We faced them twice at home and they failed to win both times. Not only that, but we even beat his Bayern team at home. We're talking about Wenger beating Pep here, Wenger doesn't know anything about Champions League football.

 

[blueparrot]

If we go to Anfield next season and concede three quick goals yet again serious questions will have to be asked.

Unless we are 18 points ahead again in which case we might think losing at anfield is worth sacrificing one game for the whole season. It's unfortunate we played there twice this season and individual mistakes have cost us in both games but we aren't out yet lets see if they can press like that on our bigger pitch. If we had a left wing back 3 at the back would stretch them even more. I agree Gundogan was a mistake though.

 

[Armaan]

Real are the perfect example of balancing attack and defence. They can play beautiful football but they can also be resolute and defend when necessary. Past couple of seasons they’ve won it and it’s down to finding the perfect balance between defence and attack. We’re too lopsided, this approach is never going to work against the best sides. Peps Barca was a one off and he really needs to change it he’s going to find European success with city.

 

[supercity88]

I think he was pragmatic amd it backfired. Gundogan was awful. We looked better when de bruyne went central. We need an energetic player in there like Fred...it is a big weakness and our lack of balance at full back showed. Robertson and Alexander Arnold gave good support and pinned Sane back. Walker didnt have anyone in front of him. Tactically we were poor. Should have swapped sterling fro bernardo if we wanted any change from the everton game.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Was that not the plan before Sane needlessly gave the ball away and Salah scored?

I've said it already but the defeats to Liverpool this season have been down to our mentality rather than tactics.

No it wasn't the plan and this mentality stuff is bollocks. It's about tactics, both our own and our response to the other team's. Pep is known to study the other team in great depth therefore he should know that Liverpool tend to struggle when they have the majority of the possession.

Leicester 2-0 Liverpool - 70% possession
Spurs 4-1 Liverpool - 64% possession
Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea - 54% possession
Liverpool 1-1 Everton - 79% possession
Liverpool 0-0 West Brom - 70% possession
Swansea 1-0 Liverpool - 72% possession
Liverpool 2-3 West Brom - 69% possession
Rags 2-1 Liverpool 68% possession

 

[RayCTID]

It's a tricky one to call because you can be defensive but still can be swept aside against the scousers ( or any other tough side who wants to make a fast start in the Champions League).

 

[Danamy]

We aren’t Barca though. I like the way we play but it’s a two-leg tie and there has to be a Plan B if Plan A isn’t working. Everyone knows that Liverpool struggle to break down a determined defence. We know that we always concede early against Liverpool. So stop being pig-headed, start conservatively then open up when we’ve shut the crowd up and they’re getting tired and frustrated.

I think you're missing my point, the players are brain washed to only thinking one way and to ask them to change for a one off game is never going to happen, it never happened at Barca so it's not going to start now. It's not only us though, Klopps Liverpool only know to play one way but it just so happens it's our Achilles heel, that's why no other team has been able to replicate what Liverpool do to us because they're not brain washed and trained to play that way?

To add to the above this is also what Pep meant at his press conference when he said if he asked the players to play a different way they'd think he was scared and gone mad, especially when up to now we've been blowing teams apart and breaking records playing that way?

 

[AFC60]

I do have to say one important thing about Pep though, he really has taken City to a new level and that was clear from watching the other teams' forums. Nobody wanted to face City.
Bayern fans were hoping to avoid City, Barca fans as well, Juve fans as well. That really says a lot. That means even they don't believe they have the answer to Pep's football at City.
Only fans which didn't mind facing City was the Madristas, but then again they have a strong reputation for arrogance.

 

[Danamy]

I do have to say one important thing about Pep though, he really has taken City to a new level and that was clear from watching the other teams' forums. Nobody wanted to face City.
Bayern fans were hoping to avoid City, Barca fans as well, Juve fans as well. That really says a lot. That means even they don't believe they have the answer to Pep's football at City.
Only fans which didn't mind facing City was the Madristas, but then again they have a strong reputation for arrogance.

I wasn't able to listen to the draw live but my mate decided to think he'd wind me up by texting me we drew Barca away first leg, my reply was I'm happy with that, when I found out the truth I was absolutely gutted for obvious reasons, it was the worse draw we could get and it's now becoming a reality.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I think you're missing my point, the players are brain washed to only thinking one way and to ask them to change for a one off game is never going to happen, it never happened at Barca so it's not going to start now. It's not only us though, Klopps Liverpool only know to play one way but it just so happens it's our Achilles heel, that's why no other team has been able to replicate what Liverpool do to us because they're not brain washed and trained to play that way?

To add to the above this is also what Pep meant at his press conference when he said if he asked the players to play a different way they'd think he was scared and gone mad, especially when up to now we've been blowing teams apart and breaking records playing that way?

I'm not missing your point mate. I'm saying that a coach has to look at a game and take the approach most likely to win. And if it's our Achilles heel then we should do something about it. What's that quote about insanity being repeating the same event and expecting a different outcome?

A good coach should be able to train his players to play a different game once in a blue moon. When Burnley came to us in the league, Dyche had them playing a pressing game that they don't usually play. It was a full-on high press all over the field. Now it didn't pay off in the end but it took a penalty then two goals in the last 20 minutes to win it. I really admired Dyche a lot more after that as he'd achieved that in a week.

So Pep knowing that Klopp has his measure and that Klopp knew he was unlikely to change should have seen him come up with something totally different. Three at the back and a false-nine, let them attack us for 60 minutes then make the changes and cut loose when they're committed to going forward. We used to criticise Pellgrini for being pig-headed, seemingly not studying the opposition and not having a plan B so what's the difference?