Donald Trump

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Ban-jani said:
I’ve read this post three times now and still don’t know what your point is, other than asking what he’s done, which is pretty obvious.

You don’t need me to tell you that de-escalating a stand off that raised concerns over nuclear war, and pushing a rogue state towards denuclearisation, is a good thing.

Tell me, aside from what’s happened, what would have been your policy?
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The stand off that Trump de-escalated was the same stand off he created. He de-escalated by giving in to Kim’s demands for nothing in return other than the remains of some KIA following many requests by their parents!
If you read the signed agreement Kim doesn’t actually have to do anything about his nukes other than say the right things every so often. Meanwhile there’s absolutely nothing in place or planned that would stop him building up his arsenal as much as he wants, and he has been given free rein to carry on killing or torturing as many of his own people as he wants.
 
The blue phantom said:
Lol. Kim Jong has played a fuckin blinder and made trump look like a ****. And this new footage that the North Koreans have just released of Trump Saluting one of their generals makes him look an even bigger ****.
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Very immature post but expect nothing less from you.

“He’s a ****”, “he looks a ****” ... grow up
 
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SWP's back said:
Their commitment towards denuclearisation is less than they agreed two months ago.
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Well the news out of the US today is that they’ll be disarmed by 2020.

The cynic in me thinks they’ll never get rid of them but become allies to Trump.
 
The blue phantom said:
Lol. Kim Jong has played a fuckin blinder and made trump look like a ****. And this new footage that the North Koreans have just released of Trump Saluting one of their generals makes him look an even bigger ****.
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Yeah the doofus got played on that one. The President of the US saluting a NK General. That vid is going to be played on a loop forever. And not just in NK.
 
west didsblue said:
The stand off that Trump de-escalated was the same stand off he created. He de-escalated by giving in to Kim’s demands for nothing in return other than the remains of some KIA following many requests by their parents!
If you read the signed agreement Kim doesn’t actually have to do anything about his nukes other than say the right things every so often. Meanwhile there’s absolutely nothing in place or planned that would stop him building up his arsenal as much as he wants, and he has been given free rein to carry on killing or torturing as many of his own people as he wants.
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He created it to put his foot down and then has allowed cooling talks, it’s obviously worked.

The US are pushing for 2020 as a date for them to have gone, breaking news today.

However as I’ve just said to SWP, I think they’ll allow them to keep the weapons but use them as an ally.

The murdering and torturing part is horrific. However I’m not sure Trump could have done anything about it realistically without starting a nuclear war. Hopefully NK will cool on it with a nudge or two.
 
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Ban-jani said:
He created it to put his foot down and then has allowed cooling talks, it’s obviously worked.

The US are pushing for 2020 as a date for them to have gone, breaking news today.

However as I’ve just said to SWP, I think they’ll allow them to keep the weapons but use them as an ally.

The murdering and torturing part is horrific. However I’m not sure Trump could have done anything about it realistically without starting a nuclear war. Hopefully NK will cool on it with a nudge or two.
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The fact that the US are pushing for 2020 means absolutely nothing other than Kim and Trump will both tell a few lies in 2020 to make out everything’s on track.
There are three things Trump has achieved other than a photo op for himself.
1) Kim has secured his position as leader of NK, sanctions will be eased and nothing will change for the population. He will still have his nukes and nothing will change that.
2) China’s influence in the region will increase following Trump’s pledge to reduce military collaboration with SK. Japan and SK will feel less secure.
3) Russia are sitting on the sidelines watching the western alliance weakening and watching Trump align himself with various authoritarian regimes including themselves. Russia will be emboldened and are likely to step things up in Ukraine and if they see cracks in NATO, the Baltic states could be at risk.
 
Homar said:
What utter rubbish. A country that killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan at a lower estimate and millions at an upper estimate. Operates torture camps that operate outside of the law. Uses depleted uranium shells, causing large number of birth defects that will affect generations of people. Commits regularly extra-judicial murder by unmanned drone. Committed the only act of nuclear terrorism to date. Attempted countless coups and assassinations. Continues to support a genocide in Yemen. Continues to support Israel and its radical right-wing policies that deny the Palestinians their most basic human rights. Has an intelligence and military service willing to murder its own people in order to create a casus belli. Trump's saving grace is that he is finally causing Europe to see the US for what it is. Driving force behind peace and prosperity my backside.
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Yep. It’s a cold, cruel world out there!
 
Ban-jani said:
I’ve read this post three times now and still don’t know what your point is, other than asking what he’s done, which is pretty obvious.

You don’t need me to tell you that de-escalating a stand off that raised concerns over nuclear war, and pushing a rogue state towards denuclearisation, is a good thing.

Tell me, aside from what’s happened, what would have been your policy?
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the old “I have no clue what’s going on, so you tell me on this Internet forum how to fix one of the most intractable problems in the world.”

Let me get back to you in 2020.
 
west didsblue said:
The fact that the US are pushing for 2020 means absolutely nothing other than Kim and Trump will both tell a few lies in 2020 to make out everything’s on track.
There are three things Trump has achieved other than a photo op for himself.
1) Kim has secured his position as leader of NK, sanctions will be eased and nothing will change for the population. He will still have his nukes and nothing will change that.
2) China’s influence in the region will increase following Trump’s pledge to reduce military collaboration with SK. Japan and SK will feel less secure.
3) Russia are sitting on the sidelines watching the western alliance weakening and watching Trump align himself with various authoritarian regimes including themselves. Russia will be emboldened and are likely to step things up in Ukraine and if they see cracks in NATO, the Baltic states could be at risk.
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All three points are speculative and whilst I understand how you’ve came to the ideas and agree all can happen there’s a question I have...

2. could be just as big a piece of bullshit as 1., why is Trump’s pledge any more realistic than Kim’s? They could both be telling the truth or both lying.

3. I think you’ve definitely got a point. Another of the few things the arsehole has got right was the chemical weapons factory bombing, with us and France. We need to show strength and draw a line with Putin or he will go for a land grab.
 
Ban-jani said:
He created it to put his foot down and then has allowed cooling talks, it’s obviously worked.

The US are pushing for 2020 as a date for them to have gone, breaking news today.

However as I’ve just said to SWP, I think they’ll allow them to keep the weapons but use them as an ally.

The murdering and torturing part is horrific. However I’m not sure Trump could have done anything about it realistically without starting a nuclear war. Hopefully NK will cool on it with a nudge or two.
Click to expand...

I thought the aim was for a major reduction by 2020 not disarmament. Also Kim nixed the verification element in the document they signed and when asked about verification the Sec of State threw a hissy fit. There is no agreed verification process and it will take months if not years of negotiations to agree a verification process acceptable to both sides and that’s before any actual verifying is done. This is why you don’t give your opponent what he wants until you have thrashed out and agreed all the boring details beforehand.

And then he gets trolled into saluting a NK General. Kim must be pissing himself at how easy it was.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Ah yes, the old “I have no clue what’s going on, so you tell me on this Internet forum how to fix one of the most intractable problems in the world.”

Let me get back to you in 2020.
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Ha, what a cop out of a post.

You seemed to have an answer to how it shouldn’t have been handled so come on, let’s here how you think it should be...
 
Ban-jani said:
All three points are speculative and whilst I understand how you’ve came to the ideas and agree all can happen there’s a question I have...

2. could be just as big a piece of bullshit as 1., why is Trump’s pledge any more realistic than Kim’s? They could both be telling the truth or both lying.

3. I think you’ve definitely got a point. Another of the few things the arsehole has got right was the chemical weapons factory bombing, with us and France. We need to show strength and draw a line with Putin or he will go for a land grab.
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Why would Trump and Kim suddenly start telling the truth? Neither have a track record of being honest about anything. Unfortunately there’s plenty of gullible people around to give him credit he doesn’t deserve. Bottom line is Trump had a personal victory but the consequence was a huge loss for the western world.
 
west didsblue said:
Why would Trump and Kim suddenly start telling the truth? Neither have a track record of being honest about anything. Unfortunately there’s plenty of gullible people around to give him credit he doesn’t deserve. Bottom line is Trump had a personal victory but the consequence was a huge loss for the western world.
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They wouldn’t but you’ve missed my point, on your point, that Trump could easily lie like Kim.

Yes there are you’re right, I hope you don’t mean me though. I seldom give him credit, only have done on a couple of occasions.

There are people who wouldn’t give him credit for anything, even if he made a master stroke (not that I mean this is necessarily) they’d still say the opposite.

I disagree on your last point, it’s far too early to tell.
 
west didsblue said:
The fact that the US are pushing for 2020 means absolutely nothing other than Kim and Trump will both tell a few lies in 2020 to make out everything’s on track.
There are three things Trump has achieved other than a photo op for himself.
1) Kim has secured his position as leader of NK, sanctions will be eased and nothing will change for the population. He will still have his nukes and nothing will change that.
2) China’s influence in the region will increase following Trump’s pledge to reduce military collaboration with SK. Japan and SK will feel less secure.
3) Russia are sitting on the sidelines watching the western alliance weakening and watching Trump align himself with various authoritarian regimes including themselves. Russia will be emboldened and are likely to step things up in Ukraine and if they see cracks in NATO, the Baltic states could be at risk.
Click to expand...

You reckon them disputed islands around Japan could flare up more because of it? Trump is weakening the west more and more each month.
 
BobKowalski said:
I thought the aim was for a major reduction by 2020 not disarmament. Also Kim nixed the verification element in the document they signed and when asked about verification the Sec of State threw a hissy fit. There is no agreed verification process and it will take months if not years of negotiations to agree a verification process acceptable to both sides and that’s before any actual verifying is done. This is why you don’t give your opponent what he wants until you have thrashed out and agreed all the boring details beforehand.

And then he gets trolled into saluting a NK General. Kim must be pissing himself at how easy it was.
Click to expand...

There’s something more to it.

Trump doesn’t want them to disarm I don’t think, he’s wants them as an ally.
 
Ban-jani said:
They wouldn’t but you’ve missed my point, on your point, that Trump could easily lie like Kim.

Yes there are you’re right, I hope you don’t mean me though. I seldom give him credit, only have done on a couple of occasions.

There are people who wouldn’t give him credit for anything, even if he made a master stroke (not that I mean this is necessarily) they’d still say the opposite.

I disagree on your last point, it’s far too early to tell.
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The point I’m making is that even if his own administration say that there’s no progress, Trump would happily contradict them if it makes him look good to his base. I don’t generally mean you when I’m referring to people being gullible but I honestly think in this case you’re potentially giving him the benefit of the doubt when if you look at the facts of what’s actually been agreed and his track record of lies and hypocrisy, he doesn’t deserve.
 
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