Bill
Well-Known Member
Spurs are a big club, a club that almost have a history.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Spurs’ new stadium
- Thread starter Chris Holmes
- Start date
Patientman63
Well-Known Member
- Levy didn't 'refuse' a fixed price deal. He was simply unable to secure one because of the complexity of the project. Nevertheless, Spurs will be able to claw some LADs back from the individual subcontractors responsible.
Don't bank on it being a lot. I don't know the specifics of WHL, but I DO know the principle fire alarm contractor on that project (a company I'm familiar with) would absolutely not have entered into the original contract without capping the LAD's, usually to a figure of 10% of the contract value.
Don't bank on it being a lot. I don't know the specifics of WHL, but I DO know the principle fire alarm contractor on that project (a company I'm familiar with) would absolutely not have entered into the original contract without capping the LAD's, usually to a figure of 10% of the contract value.
I don't doubt it. There are several contractors responsible, though. And the impression I get is that it is electrical work which is the principal cause of the problems.
crazyg
Well-Known Member
I was replying to to your remark that "We aren't even a third of the way into the season yet!", by pointing out that you will be MORE than a third of the way after the next match.
Your comment appeared to me to be rather petty, considering that almost a third of the season has gone by, and we're still no nearer finding out when this fiasco will be over.
Umm,........exactly how far we are into the season isn't the point. That I mentioned it at all was merely by way of adding colour and detail to the actual point. Therefore, for you to try to make it the point surely demonstrates pettiness on you part rather than mine? ;-)
As was my reply to your statement. So why mention it in the first place if you didn't want a comeback?
I think if you read through your postings, starting immediately from the one I originally replied to, and my subsequent reply to it, you may get where I'm coming from - or you may not. If your comment was a throwaway line to "add colour and detail to the actual point", you can't be surprised when there's a comeback to it.Eh? You were the one to start talking about pettiness, mate. I only mentioned it because I genuinely couldn't think why you did!
I was talking ,and still am, about your "throwaway" comment, and that only.
As a City supporter of almost 60 years standing, I found that comment very petty, and symbolic of the total disdain your club has shown to the rest of the Premier League, and, more importantly, the supporters of those clubs, over this never ending saga of "will they or won't they" be ready for............... As a consequence of this, supporters have put to extra expense (mainly ours), but this has been more than covered in previous posts.
A shambles and a monumental cock up from start to finish, with not an ounce of remorse or integrity shown by your club's leaders.
I think if you read through your postings, starting immediately from the one I originally replied to, and my subsequent reply to it, you may get where I'm coming from - or you may not. If your comment was a throwaway line to "add colour and detail to the actual point", you can't be surprised when there's a comeback to it.
I was talking ,and still am, about your "throwaway" comment, and that only.
Mate, I'm sure that this tangent is getting very boring for everyone else. It seems that you have taken offence to a totally innocent remark - one that I suppose could be interpreted as petty if you had known that my intent was to be so. But you didn't and it wasn't. Mens Rea. What I wrote was merely by way of emphasising how premature the original "nailed it" comment was. No pettiness intended. I hope that that explanation satisfies you. I really don't wish to inflict this discussion further on others here.
As a City supporter of almost 60 years standing, I found that comment very petty, and symbolic of the total disdain your club has shown to the rest of the Premier League, and, more importantly, the supporters of those clubs, over this never ending saga of "will they or won't they" be ready for............... As a consequence of this, supporters have put to extra expense (mainly ours), but this has been more than covered in previous posts.
A shambles and a monumental cock up from start to finish, with not an ounce of remorse or integrity shown by your club's leaders.
Blimey! Disdainful as well as petty now?!!!!! Well, I guess that you're determined to think the worst of me and what I have written. I hope that others on here are able to judge me less harshly!
As to the rest, there appears to be little point in me responding to that either since nothing I write will do anything to change your mind and will only antagonise you further. Thanks for the discussion anyway.
Met Line Hammer
Well-Known Member
Jim. Have a day off FFS. Yes you'll have a great stadium. But it's been a complete omnishambles. The y words have managed to bend the rules and have managed to F off your fan base at the same time. It's all very Karren Brady(sl@g).
Going off on a tangent here but just typing KB's name has got me going. Watched the apprentice last night grimacing and gurning at the contestants then slagging them off for their business decisions. If I were her I'd keep shtum. That bitch got a £1m bonus for and I quote "the best stadium migration in history". She's got some front I'll give her that. And I'm not talking about her bristols.
But anyway. If I was a Spurs fan. I'd be really p1ssed off and I certainly wouldn't be defending the delay/subterfuge in anyway.
Going off on a tangent here but just typing KB's name has got me going. Watched the apprentice last night grimacing and gurning at the contestants then slagging them off for their business decisions. If I were her I'd keep shtum. That bitch got a £1m bonus for and I quote "the best stadium migration in history". She's got some front I'll give her that. And I'm not talking about her bristols.
But anyway. If I was a Spurs fan. I'd be really p1ssed off and I certainly wouldn't be defending the delay/subterfuge in anyway.
Last edited by a moderator:
Patientman63
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt it. There are several contractors responsible, though. And the impression I get is that it is electrical work which is the principal cause of the problems.
It is one company that is responsible for the fire alarms, security, access controls, fire sprinklers etc, they secured the entire package. Let's call them ACME systems (not their real name). ACME will in turn have sub-contracted a bulk of the electrical works, containment works, cable pulling works etc to other specialist suppliers, and those sub-contracts would be "back-to-back" with the main contract for the works secured, binding them to the same T&C's. There is no doubt any LAD's successfully imposed on ACME would onwardly be recovered from the supply chain, but Mr Levy and THFC would only be able to recover from ACME, as the contract is with them only. Sure there will be a lot of pain down the supply chain, some serious money will have been lost, heads will roll, and some sub-suppliers may even fold. Yes Mr Levy and THFC will recover some money, but it will be nothing like the financial loss this overrun has caused.
Jim. Have a day off FFS. Yes you'll have a great stadium. But it's been a complete omnishambles. The y words have managed to bend the rules and have managed to F off your fan base at the same time. It's all very Karren Brady(sl@g).
Going off on a tangent here but just typing KB's name has got me going. Watched the apprentice last night grimacing and gurning at the contestants then slagging them off for their business decisions. If I were her I'd keep shtum. That bitch got a £1m bonus for and I quote "the best stadium migration in history". She's got some front I'll give her that. And I'm not talking about her bristols.
But anyway. If I was a Spurs fan. I'd be really p1ssed off and I certainly wouldn't be defending the delay/subterfuge in anyway.
Yes, many Spurs fans are pissed off. Understandably so. And yes, some other clubs and their fans are also pissed off - equally understandably. But it seems to me that, as is sadly the media / social media driven norm in our country these days, hyperbole, melodrama and misinformation are running rampant. A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss.
Judging by some of the comments both here and elsewhere, you could have been forgiven for thinking that Spurs - and Levy in particular - had committed unspeakable crimes against humanity while presiding over the biggest bungle in the entire history of bungling (did I mention hyperbole?)! ;-)
The truth is somewhat less dramatic. A major construction project has overrun by a few months because a critical wiring error by a subcontractor was discovered at the eleventh hour. As a consequence of which, 50 thousand or so Spurs fans and a few thousand Manchester City fans had their prepaid travel plans disrupted and have been left variously out of pocket. In addition, Manchester City FC suffered the inconvenience of having to make a couple of alterations to their schedule and having to play a game of football on a poor surface. Thankfully for Man City, no one was injured and they won the game anyway.
That's the sum of it. And while I absolutely do understand the annoyance felt by many now, I'm also quite certain that it will all soon be forgotten once the stadium is finally opened. It may be too much to think that rival fans will ever admit that the wait was worth it but I hope that Spurs fans will, at least.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is one company that is responsible for the fire alarms, security, access controls, fire sprinklers etc, they secured the entire package. Let's call them ACME systems (not their real name). ACME will in turn have sub-contracted a bulk of the electrical works, containment works, cable pulling works etc to other specialist suppliers, and those sub-contracts would be "back-to-back" with the main contract for the works secured, binding them to the same T&C's. There is no doubt any LAD's successfully imposed on ACME would onwardly be recovered from the supply chain, but Mr Levy and THFC would only be able to recover from ACME, as the contract is with them only. Sure there will be a lot of pain down the supply chain, some serious money will have been lost, heads will roll, and some sub-suppliers may even fold. Yes Mr Levy and THFC will recover some money, but it will be nothing like the financial loss this overrun has caused.
In which case, I can only lament that the work of this company's construction team appears to be every bit as slapdash as the work of their legal team is thorough!
Perhaps, given that the Law isn't their actual line of business, it would be fair to ask whether they have got their priorities right. ;-)
Last edited:
Well either they don't consider Spurs to be a good investment or they don't love Spurs enough.
Even if they did want to invest in Spurs to the extent that they could compete with City they would fall foul of the financial fair play regulations because Spurs simply do not have revenue or the fanbase that City have.
They've had a long long time to invest Jim. And chosen not to. Besides which, FFP does permit owner investment now, and stadium investment doesn't count against FFP anyway. There's been nothing stopping Joe Lewis and ENIC putting money into the club except their wish not to. And fair enough too, but I do find the pride of Spurs fans that they've been the ones paying for the club while the owner counts his billions somewhat bizarre. He and they and have done very nicely out of it, thank you, while you pay record prices for tickets.
They've had a long long time to invest Jim. And chosen not to. Besides which, FFP does permit owner investment now, and stadium investment doesn't count against FFP anyway. There's been nothing stopping Joe Lewis and ENIC putting money into the club except their wish not to. And fair enough too, but I do find the pride of Spurs fans that they've been the ones paying for the club while the owner counts his billions somewhat bizarre. He and they and have done very nicely out of it, thank you, while you pay record prices for tickets.
Wasn't me who posted that!
For info, though, ENIC, have invested maybe as much as £100 million into the club over the past 15 years - mostly towards stadium costs. Nothing like your owner, of course, but better than a kick in the bollocks all the same. At least ENIC haven't taken money out. Spurs haven't paid a dividend for years. Levy does take a fat pay cheque but, given that he does two jobs (Chairman and CEO) pretty well and given the added perspective that Pochettino, Kane and maybe one or two others at the club are earning more, I'm okay with that.
Wasn't me who posted that!
For info, though, ENIC, have invested maybe as much as £100 million into the club over the past 15 years - mostly towards stadium costs. Nothing like your owner, of course, but better than a kick in the bollocks all the same. At least ENIC haven't taken money out. Spurs haven't paid a dividend for years. Levy does take a fat pay cheque but, given that he does two jobs (Chairman and CEO) pretty well and given the added perspective that Pochettino, Kane and maybe one or two others at the club are earning more, I'm okay with that.
Apologies, I was intending to reply to you, and quoted the wrong post.
The payments for various management costs are taking money out, it's just being dressed up nicely. Same as at Arsenal in that regard. Take that off the "investment" and it's virtually nothing. It's a cash cow. Now, as I say, as owners, they're allowed to do so, but I just find it really, really weird that so many Spurs fans find it a badge of honour that they're paying for the multi-billionaire owner's plaything.
crazyg
Well-Known Member
You're welcome.Mate, I'm sure that this tangent is getting very boring for everyone else. It seems that you have taken offence to a totally innocent remark - one that I suppose could be interpreted as petty if you had known that my intent was to be so. But you didn't and it wasn't. Mens Rea. What I wrote was merely by way of emphasising how premature the original "nailed it" comment was. No pettiness intended. I hope that that explanation satisfies you. I really don't wish to inflict this discussion further on others here.
Blimey! Disdainful as well as petty now?!!!!! Well, I guess that you're determined to think the worst of me and what I have written. I hope that others on here are able to judge me less harshly!
As to the rest, there appears to be little point in me responding to that either since nothing I write will do anything to change your mind and will only antagonise you further. Thanks for the discussion anyway.
Apologies, I was intending to reply to you, and quoted the wrong post.
The payments for various management costs are taking money out, it's just being dressed up nicely. Same as at Arsenal in that regard. Take that off the "investment" and it's virtually nothing. It's a cash cow. Now, as I say, as owners, they're allowed to do so, but I just find it really, really weird that so many Spurs fans find it a badge of honour that they're paying for the multi-billionaire owner's plaything.
But it's no more "taking money out" than salaries for Poch, Kane et al is taking money out. Levy works bloody hard for Spurs, fulfilling two roles. He's not just leeching off the club like, say, the Glazers at Utd. He's also done the job very well overall, IMO - taking Spurs from perennial mid table mediocrity and occasional relegation battle (almost as much of a basket case as City used to be!) to perennial top six and fairly frequent top four. All against the backdrop of a Sky 4 with an overwhelming financial advantage and the emergence of Chelsea and City as serial trophy winners, whilst simultaneously building among the best training facilities and stadiums in Europe. He's also overseen the previously neglected academy's renaissance as a genuinely productive enterprise. None of this has happened by accident. It has happened because of good planning and management.
I'll conclude by repeating what I wrote earlier:
All a fan can really demand of an owner is that they run the club well, on and off the pitch; that they have ambition and vision; that they respect the traditions and ethos of the club; and that they don't take millions of pounds out of the club - in order to fund a leveraged buyout, for instance. Anything more is a bonus - in City's case, a fantastic bonus!
mrtwiceaseason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 7,883
Dont know why they are bothering with a new stadium just had an email from them saying I can have 6 tickets v chelsea next week.just checked the ticket planner ground is 60% unsold .
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
Dont know why they are bothering with a new stadium just had an email from them saying I can have 6 tickets v chelsea next week.just checked the ticket planner ground is 60% unsold .
I think Spurs fans are all "Wembley-ed" out. They'll fill the new ground easily enough when it's ready. New stadium syndrome and all that, plus they do have a sizeable fanbase. They will need to keep doing reasonably well on the pitch to keep filling it over the coming years of course but they won't have any problems at the start.
Dont know why they are bothering with a new stadium just had an email from them saying I can have 6 tickets v chelsea next week.just checked the ticket planner ground is 60% unsold .
Ha! I don't think that's entirely accurate.
I'd estimate that some 50K tickets have been sold thus far. Reckon it'll be nearer 60K or above come the day.
There's no doubt, though, that attendances are disappointing this season. In some respects, there are similarities with your own attendances for Champions League games. In both cases, the fans of each club are deeply unhappy (you with UEFA, Spurs fans with Wembley and the club itself) and are voting with their feet. Neither instance reflects the true demand for tickets.
EricBrooksGhost
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 2,784
. And the impression I get
In other words you don't know.
mrtwiceaseason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 7,883
was joking about demand at the new ground you will fill it most games.Ha! I don't think that's entirely accurate.
I'd estimate that some 50K tickets have been sold thus far. Reckon it'll be nearer 60K or above come the day.
There's no doubt, though, that attendances are disappointing this season. In some respects, there are similarities with your own attendances for Champions League games. In both cases, the fans of each club are deeply unhappy (you with UEFA, Spurs fans with Wembley and the club itself) and are voting with their feet. Neither instance reflects the true demand for tickets.
check the seat planner for chelsea next week bud not much point in openning the top tier.was genuinly shocked when i saw it.only a few blocks were sold out