Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

ChicagoBlue said:
Don’t be so sure.

She will be taught how the game is played and how not to overplay one’s hand. Let’s not forget, she is new at this and is only one of 445 Representatives in Congress.

She is a story because of her rise against the machine and being the youngest ever. Today’s news is that she had to wait to be sworn in and get paid as a Congresswoman before she could afford to rent a DC apartment, so I’m not sure where the rich girl meme originated.

I wish her, and all the newly minted Congressmen and women, the best of luck, because Washington has turned away from “We, the People” and is almost solely focused on their largesse from the SCOTUS’ Citizens United decision.
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The average income of the area she grew up in is $1.2m a year and she went to a prestigious school in Yorktown. Her Dad was an architect and was the poor immigrant who moved to the Bronx and made something of himself. She's the tribute act. After her Dad died, she went through a period of having to (gasp) work two part time bar jobs in Manhattan because there were legal complications over his estate. Her "I'm from the Bronx" act is the same upper middle class Bohemian act that politicians have been pulling for years and its always offensive yet always effective.

Oh, and she actually could have paid for an apartment. According to public records she had $15,000 in her account where the average DC apartment is $2,500 a month. She was making a point; a good point, but a fake point nonetheless.

My problem with her is the same problem I have with a ton of politicians at the moment - they are floating ideas that sound nice but are uncosted and most importantly, do not have a cat in hells chance of actually passing as legislation.

That's what the point is. All of the PR bullshit, all of the tweets and scandals and news stories and photo opportunities and everything else, that's what it's all for - being able to pass meaningful legislation. Ideologues get nowhere in Government as Trump and various others have found out before him. You have to present bills that can be passed. Not revolutions that change things drastically, just constant small wins in the direction that you want to go and you need to be able to suck it up and vote for things you don't want in order to get movement that you do want.

Her policies are generally sound although for centre left European politician and that's not going to work in the US. Though her "me lying is different from Republican lying" stuff is bollocks.
 
Damocles said:
The average income of the area she grew up in is $1.2m a year and she went to a prestigious school in Yorktown. Her Dad was an architect and was the poor immigrant who moved to the Bronx and made something of himself. She's the tribute act. After her Dad died, she went through a period of having to (gasp) work two part time bar jobs in Manhattan because there were legal complications over his estate. Her "I'm from the Bronx" act is the same upper middle class Bohemian act that politicians have been pulling for years and its always offensive yet always effective.

Oh, and she actually could have paid for an apartment. According to public records she had $15,000 in her account where the average DC apartment is $2,500 a month. She was making a point; a good point, but a fake point nonetheless.

My problem with her is the same problem I have with a ton of politicians at the moment - they are floating ideas that sound nice but are uncosted and most importantly, do not have a cat in hells chance of actually passing as legislation.

That's what the point is. All of the PR bullshit, all of the tweets and scandals and news stories and photo opportunities and everything else, that's what it's all for - being able to pass meaningful legislation. Ideologues get nowhere in Government as Trump and various others have found out before him. You have to present bills that can be passed. Not revolutions that change things drastically, just constant small wins in the direction that you want to go and you need to be able to suck it up and vote for things you don't want in order to get movement that you do want.

Her policies are generally sound although for centre left European politician and that's not going to work in the US. Though her "me lying is different from Republican lying" stuff is bollocks.
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The middle class love a champagne socialist, they prefer them to the scruffy big issue selling socialist types who did dirty work like mining and shovelling shit :) Soundbyte politics and dare I say it populism (The dirty word) we've gone full on Wolfie Smith, politics has lost it's way for sure.
 
Damocles said:
The average income of the area she grew up in is $1.2m a year and she went to a prestigious school in Yorktown. Her Dad was an architect and was the poor immigrant who moved to the Bronx and made something of himself. She's the tribute act. After her Dad died, she went through a period of having to (gasp) work two part time bar jobs in Manhattan because there were legal complications over his estate. Her "I'm from the Bronx" act is the same upper middle class Bohemian act that politicians have been pulling for years and its always offensive yet always effective.

Oh, and she actually could have paid for an apartment. According to public records she had $15,000 in her account where the average DC apartment is $2,500 a month. She was making a point; a good point, but a fake point nonetheless.

My problem with her is the same problem I have with a ton of politicians at the moment - they are floating ideas that sound nice but are uncosted and most importantly, do not have a cat in hells chance of actually passing as legislation.

That's what the point is. All of the PR bullshit, all of the tweets and scandals and news stories and photo opportunities and everything else, that's what it's all for - being able to pass meaningful legislation. Ideologues get nowhere in Government as Trump and various others have found out before him. You have to present bills that can be passed. Not revolutions that change things drastically, just constant small wins in the direction that you want to go and you need to be able to suck it up and vote for things you don't want in order to get movement that you do want.

Her policies are generally sound although for centre left European politician and that's not going to work in the US. Though her "me lying is different from Republican lying" stuff is bollocks.
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How does one move the needle if one isn’t willing to try to advance the agenda away from the trend line of the last 39 years?

She got elected to help achieve that, which is also why a record number of women were elected. They are generally seen as steadier, more willing to accommodate the views of others, and not be petulant children, like the President.

Beto in TX was another example. Good speaker, roused the base and almost upset the guy who was #2 in the race for the Republican nomination for President. Many say he only lost because Cruz embraced Trump and got the seal of approval that helped the rural voter punch his ticket. That embrace was on a man who called him a liar, said his father was part of the JFK assassination plot, and that his wife looked like a smacked arse that only a mother could love!

So, yes, I understand your penchant for the likes of people like that...who get stuff done FOR THEMSELVES...but then if AOC is the silver spooner, why would she stand on such a leftie platform for her constituents?

And, I’m not sure in what world $15,000 is real money, but in Brooklyn NYC and DC, it is a months expenses! My son, who works a summer job at Home Depot (B&Q) when he is not in Uni, has more money than that!

Yes, AOC is on the top of the crest of the Blue Wave entering Congress, but let’s not openly, and somewhat flippantly, dismiss her just yet. After all, it’s been A WHOLE WEEK and Congress isn’t even in session (I don’t think, but I’m on my hols and not watching TV!) and Pelosi hasn’t had a chance to explain the big girl realities of DC to the noobs yet.

Remember Hillary and health care during Bill’s stint in the White House? Didn’t get it done, but moved the needle to help make the thought of The Affordable Care Act somewhat palatable. 20 years later, after Republican rule and a new Dem in the WH, it became a reality. The speed of molasses? Maybe, but that’s how DC works.

Nancy and Ronnie and Just Say No, to legalized marijuana sweeping the country. I’m not sure which issues AOC is going to hang her hat on, but you can bet that if she doesn’t get new legislation passed to accomplish it, she will at least move the conversation forward, possibly changing some minds and making the issue seem somewhat more reasonable, for many Americans.

I understand the “all politicians spout platitudes” and “she can’t get XYZ done in 2019 America,” but she can start the dialogue and she can put a young, fresh, ethnic face on it. That alone is progress!
 
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oldtimerdiscopants said:
Women and children with nothing but the shirts on their backs?

She's either blind stupid or both.

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Always love how when someone says something that one disagrees with, it has to be literal and taken word for word as a fact, not hyperbole meant to illuminate a point, nor an idea that needs illuminating.

America was built on immigrants, but some white Americans (descended from immigrants themselves, of course) see a different color, or language, and think “other, not MY America!

Now, don’t get me wrong...she would do well to STFU and sit down with some wise old heads for a few weeks and months. However, the spotlight is bright and can draw you in, and it will never be brighter for her than it is today, so she is possibly being a little too available for LIVE TV and other media, about which she has much to learn. I actually gave an interview to the NYT about aviation, unions, etc... and the discussion we had and what was printed were completely different takes on the words spoken, and I felt like some of the questions were designed to elicit thoughts, feelings and emotions the author could use to slant what was said...and they were...so I understand the need to be schooled in the “art” of media relations. To this point, it has mostly been positive about her and a discussion of her shooting star. Soon, it will become 24/7 parody using video clips, quotes out of context, and certain words twisted to make her look bad and her message look foolish...but she will learn. Everyone was new at their job once!
 
If you google the speech marks bit, it's basically a list of those who would want to destroy her. Uncanny, and no surprise to see breitbart at the top.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Always love how when someone says something that one disagrees with, it has to be literal and taken word for word as a fact, not hyperbole meant to illuminate a point, nor an idea that needs illuminating.

America was built on immigrants, but some white Americans (descended from immigrants themselves, of course) see a different color, or language, and think “other, not MY America!

Now, don’t get me wrong...she would do well to STFU and sit down with some wise old heads for a few weeks and months. However, the spotlight is bright and can draw you in, and it will never be brighter for her than it is today, so she is possibly being a little too available for LIVE TV and other media, about which she has much to learn. I actually gave an interview to the NYT about aviation, unions, etc... and the discussion we had and what was printed were completely different takes on the words spoken, and I felt like some of the questions were designed to elicit thoughts, feelings and emotions the author could use to slant what was said...and they were...so I understand the need to be schooled in the “art” of media relations. To this point, it has mostly been positive about her and a discussion of her shooting star. Soon, it will become 24/7 parody using video clips, quotes out of context, and certain words twisted to make her look bad and her message look foolish...but she will learn. Everyone was new at their job once!
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It's not hyperbole it's true that she's a champagne socialist, a plant, a result of identity politics. She's not bright enough to elicit real discussion she's a sideshow a ghost of a ghost of a ghost. She gets sympathy because she's an attractive young woman, she deserves the criticism because it's important to show how superficial her political aims are.
Damocles posted a small biopic of her, now if she really came from the slums her voice might roar instead of squeak.
 
Damocles said:
The average income of the area she grew up in is $1.2m a year and she went to a prestigious school in Yorktown. Her Dad was an architect and was the poor immigrant who moved to the Bronx and made something of himself. She's the tribute act. After her Dad died, she went through a period of having to (gasp) work two part time bar jobs in Manhattan because there were legal complications over his estate. Her "I'm from the Bronx" act is the same upper middle class Bohemian act that politicians have been pulling for years and its always offensive yet always effective.

Oh, and she actually could have paid for an apartment. According to public records she had $15,000 in her account where the average DC apartment is $2,500 a month. She was making a point; a good point, but a fake point nonetheless.
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The average houshold earnings of Yorktown Heights where she lived from the age of 5 is $141000 not 1.2M and it has been well documented that her family moved because she was enrolled in a school there and her mother took on extra work to afford the area.

Notice I also said lived, not grew up in, as that's where her house was, doesn't mean she didn't spend vast amounts of time back home in the bronx where the rest of her family lived at weekends, holidays and any other spare time.

Also on the apartment thing, Fox and fox only were the ones disclosing her savings of 15 grand she had 6 months before the election and waffling about average rents of $2700, something other congress people, washington residents and other press outlets laughed at as a very feeble atempt to shame her as DC has expensive living costs and most could relate with her comments

oldtimerdiscopants said:
The middle class love a champagne socialist, they prefer them to the scruffy big issue selling socialist types who did dirty work like mining and shovelling shit :) Soundbyte politics and dare I say it populism (The dirty word) we've gone full on Wolfie Smith, politics has lost it's way for sure.
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Funny that you who bemoaned her as part identity politics keep bringing up tge identity of peoples class to define this conversation.

You keep trying to spin this here and other threads as us working class being conned, yet I am not of such a mind that becuase you come from a better more well off position, you cannot be a good person who cares for others and believes in a more equal society.

But then that was the sort of crap people hurled at tony benn because of his peerage.

I don't have a dislike of the well off because they ae well off, I have a dislike of the well off who are ****s and belittling to those less fortunate and those that have a distain for society they consider beneath them.
I don't dislke WC people who do well, but I do dislike ones like Dave Whelan and Mike Ashley who would treat their workforce like shite.

You can be upper class, middle class or working class and be a decent human being, but you can be all of them and a twat too.

I am a scruffy working class, service industry worker all my life, working to live on low pay, just getting by and I like the lass, don't care where she was brought up or what's she is worth as long as her deeds are in line with what she commiting herself to, a better, more equal society for all and helping the low paid and unfortunate.
 
urban genie said:
I am a scruffy working class, service industry worker all my life, working to live on low pay, just getting by and I like the lass, don't care where she was brought up or what's she is worth as long as her deeds are in line with what she commiting herself to, a better, more equal society for all and helping the low paid and unfortunate.
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I see through champagne socialism and it's the enemy of the working poor and underclass, they tell them how they should put up with their lot and allow them to speak for them.
Both her and Corbyn are cut from the same cloth.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
I see through champagne socialism and it's the enemy of the working poor and underclass, they tell them how they should put up with their lot and allow them to speak for them.
Both her and Corbyn are cut from the same cloth.
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I agree with her and what she says and mostly what jezza says, it isn't champagne socialism from me, it's socialism and socialism can be promoted by anyone, as long as they follow through the ideology.
 
urban genie said:
I agree with her and what she says and mostly what jezza says, it isn't champagne socialism, it's socialism and socialism can be promoted by anyone, as long as they follow through the ideology.
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When wealthy people tell the impoverished how to live then it's champagne socialism. Labour is a party for the middle class and this Cortez woman is nothing more than a life-size meme. You're entitled to your opinion of course but not everyone thinks that Corbyn and this woman are anything other than useless.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
When wealthy people tell the impoverished how to live then it's champagne socialism. Labour is a party for the middle class and this Cortez woman is nothing more than a life-size meme. You're entitled to your opinion of course but not everyone thinks that Corbyn and this woman are anything other than useless.
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I know what champaign socialism and it's a nonsense to call cobyn one, he would be a himebrewed nettle cider socualist if anything.
Also she would be classed I beleieve the american form of Champagne Socualist so as a learjet liberal.

Either way she wants free healthcare, education for all, a living wage and better rights for american citizens, for me she can be commended on.
 
urban genie said:
I know what champaign socialism and it's a nonsense to call cobyn one, he would be a himebrewed nettle cider socualist if anything.
Also she would be classed I beleieve the american form of Champagne Socualist so as a learjet liberal.

Either way she wants free healthcare, education for all, a living wage and better rights for american citizens, for me she can be commended on.
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They both have money trees in their gardens, both are wealthy profess to want to help the underclass whilst in reality just helping the middle class.
The only bloody policy they have is stop building tanks and give lots of stuff away.
 
I think Oldtimerdiscopants is really Grumpyoldmanwhohassoiledhisshorts!

You seem to know so very much about her and what she believes, to include all about her upbringing and how she sees herself, and the causes she believes in. What next, you saw a picture of her eating avocado toast?!

Well done, you have helped me see that you really are just a bitter dinosaur.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I think Oldtimerdiscopants is really Grumpyoldmanwhohassoiledhisshorts!

You seem to know so very much about her and what she believes, to include all about her upbringing and how she sees herself, and the causes she believes in. What next, you saw a picture of her eating avocado toast?!

Well done, you have helped me see that you really are just a bitter dinosaur.
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It's not my fault you prefer facebook politics to real politics, if you feel inclined give her a prod or a like :)
 
To put it in some context Ocasio-Cortez has been a Congresswoman for a mere 6 days and already has a 15 page thread on a UK based football forum so she clearly has a knack for capturing attention.

Also she drives RWNJ’s and Conservatives insane and triggers them into flinging poop all over the place so she’s definitely worth cheering on :)
 
BobKowalski said:
To put it in some context Ocasio-Cortez has been a Congresswoman for a mere 6 days and already has a 15 page thread on a UK based football forum so she clearly has a knack for capturing attention.

Also she drives RWNJ’s and Conservatives insane and triggers them into flinging poop all over the place so she’s definitely worth cheering on :)
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I agree- i suspect the old chap with the flared trousers speaks more out of right wing of anything from the left than any real understanding of the offer - its the old conservative feeling of being happy with the status quo and scared of change - how can someone base a view on someone who has been in office for 6 days unless they have a preconceived
bias ?
 
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