Is Pep the greatest?

Giving anyone the title greatest is always extremely subjective if you look down the years and I will say as I said to United fans, I'm not sure how you beat Clough/Taylor combination to take two teams from nothing to title winners and in the case of Forest European Champions twice(in a time just getting into the European Cup was extraordinarily difficult), added to that the kind of players he did it with, I honestly don't know how that can be matched. Granted once Taylor went off and the drink set in he wasn't the force, but a 1970s Clough was a manager that you could have placed almost anywhere(other than Leeds)and he would have made you successful, ironically Swales who passed over him for the England job more than once must have done so for the City one too!
 
spacecadet said:
At a canter.
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DontLookBackInAnger said:
Giving anyone the title greatest is always extremely subjective if you look down the years and I will say as I said to United fans, I'm not sure how you beat Clough/Taylor combination to take two teams from nothing to title winners and in the case of Forest European Champions twice(in a time just getting into the European Cup was extraordinarily difficult), added to that the kind of players he did it with, I honestly don't know how that can be matched. Granted once Taylor went off and the drink set in he wasn't the force, but a 1970s Clough was a manager that you could have placed almost anywhere(other than Leeds)and he would have made you successful, ironically Swales who passed over him for the England job more than once must have done so for the City one too!
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Clough was incredible but he was not a game changer; whereas people like Michels, Cryuff and Pep have advanced the game.

I'm quite certain Pep could overachieve with a less talented / expensive set of players than those that he has managed but why should he even attempt that. Pep is the guy you get to achieve extraordinary things with top players.

No other manager would have achieved what Pep has done with our squad. I still think that a lot of people just do not get how amazingly good Pep is. He's just produced a team that not only wins all the major domestic honours in the same season for the first time ever but that does it by delivering the biggest FA Cup Final winning margin since 1903. This is fantasy football.
 
People such as Clough were great in their time, but not revolutionary. Ferguson was a great motivator & great at getting a team to perform above the level of the individuals in it. Shankley, Revie, brilliant managers.

Shankley would have to be the best out of that bunch imo, because he created something which could be passed on. None of the others did that & I'm not sure Pep can be credited with doing that at Barca, as they have relied on Messi, to retain Pep's success imo. At Bayern definitely not.

Cruyff would be the biggest contender & get Pep's vote, but again, it was a different level of football compared to this.

We saw Bayern Munich at our place, under Pep & we had never seen anything like it.

Now we see it every week, better.
 
There should be ceilings on how much teams can spend based on the league they are in. Where globally each league has a grade so that it’s global standard.

You know. Like global companies set standards ... not ... rocket ... science :-)

Then really talented manager could try their hand at truely tough challenges.

And everyone could shut the f up about money.

Oh but wait till after our CL, PL, FAC, LC, CS, derby wins. And we crush those lovely likeable lads of liverpool.
 
Neville Kneville said:
People such as Clough were great in their time, but not revolutionary. Ferguson was a great motivator & great at getting a team to perform above the level of the individuals in it. Shankley, Revie, brilliant managers.

Shankley would have to be the best out of that bunch imo, because he created something which could be passed on. None of the others did that & I'm not sure Pep can be credited with doing that at Barca, as they have relied on Messi, to retain Pep's success imo. At Bayern definitely not.

Cruyff would be the biggest contender & get Pep's vote, but again, it was a different level of football compared to this.

We saw Bayern Munich at our place, under Pep & we had never seen anything like it.

Now we see it every week, better.
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Barca have a way of playing that comes from Cryuff but each manager plays a variation on it. Pep was / is perhaps his biggest disciple and the best exponent of that way of playing but he has taken it to new levels. I'm sure City will try to bring in managers after Pep goes who continue to play the Pep / City way but finding one who can analyse a game or opponent like Pep can is possibly going to be impossible.

Cryuff I think was a bona fide genius; I don't know that Pep is but he has a football brain that might just be a match for anyone in history - that's how good he is.
 
OB1 said:
Barca have a way of playing that comes from Cryuff but each manager plays a variation on it. Pep was / is perhaps his biggest disciple and the best exponent of that way of playing but he has taken it to new levels. I'm sure City will try to bring in managers after Pep goes who continue to play the Pep / City way but finding one who can analyse a game or opponent like Pep can is possibly going to be impossible.

Cryuff I think was a bona fide genius; I don't know that Pep is but he has a football brain that might just be a match for anyone in history - that's how good he is.
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I think the reason Pep is so good, is because he is so open to learning & is so good at putting into practice, what he learns.

So many comments on here still go back to the way Pep played at Barca, as if he is still trying to build Barca, here.

"Pep really wants 'x' kind of player in that position but has to put up with 'y' but he will sign 'x'. Then in the transfer market, he bids for 'x' 'y' 'z' & 'w' because he wants options.
"Ah but he really wants 'x' " some still, say, which imo belittles his managerial ability. He adapts

It took him one season, to realise that the Premier League is different. So he adapted his methods for Premier League personnel. He tries to get the balance between the physical size, pace, aerial ability & how many little wizards he can get away with picking. We mostly get away with it & if we stop getting away with it, he will adjust it.

Look at Mourinho's efforts at the swamp, by comparison. One trick pony & the trick didn't work. Fucked

Mourinho is one of the greatest managers of this era.

No comparison.
 
OB1 said:
Clough was incredible but he was not a game changer; whereas people like Michels, Cryuff and Pep have advanced the game.

I'm quite certain Pep could overachieve with a less talented / expensive set of players than those that he has managed but why should he even attempt that. Pep is the guy you get to achieve extraordinary things with top players.

No other manager would have achieved what Pep has done with our squad. I still think that a lot of people just do not get how amazingly good Pep is. He's just produced a team that not only wins all the major domestic honours in the same season for the first time ever but that does it by delivering the biggest FA Cup Final winning margin since 1903. This is fantasy football.
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I wasn't for a moment suggesting Pep wouldn't do a job at a less well backed club, or indeed Clough could have achieved the success Pep has had
 
Does anyone think that the first 20 mins of Brighton with essentially a 4-4-2 might be the big switch next season. It would be classic Pep to come into English football and end up with a radical, attacking 4-4-2 system.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Shankley would have to be the best out of that bunch imo, because he created something which could be passed on. None of the others did that & I'm not sure Pep can be credited with doing that at Barca, as they have relied on Messi, to retain Pep's success imo. At Bayern definitely not.
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That’s a good point. Creating something that can be passed on is a rare gift. In other walks of life, not just football.

If Pep does that we will be truly blessed. If he doesn’t, we’ll still have enjoyed the ride.
 
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