Angelino

[Coatigan]

Welcome.
Great start, but actually not much correct.

Jesus qualified for UEFA B list in February still being U21.
Now he is 22 and from now on counts as non-HG for CL and PL.

https://www.mancity.com/news/first-...champions-league-squad-confirmation-knock-out

As of now we have 1 free non-HG spot after Vincent left, reserved for Rodri if you ask me.

Zin came back from PSV 2 years ago. He was never ever close to becoming HG.


Please do your homework first on that difficult HG matter before confusing anyone on here.

Back on topic.

wow, ok, is that the level of hostility of reaponses here? for a well meant point? ok.

valid point on jesus on B-list in february, but, there was really no need to put him on the a-list as he was u21, so fit the b-list criteria. i do still believe he will count as a home grown player this season, as he spent 3 years with us prior to turning 21 (or the season he turns 21 in, which counts too). i.e he can be 22, and if thats his third year, still count as home grown, if he spent 3 years with us up to that point. Including on loan, just like angelino.

my understanding is jesus was bought in the summer and loaned back to his club till december. im sure our club would have known the rules then, and timed it accordingly.

the same applies to zinchenko, his loan time counts, which is why i mentioned it. but as i said, i havent checked that one, depends on the timing of his birthday.

happy to be proved wrong, but i do believe jesus is now home grown. similarly, you are totally welcome to ignore or dismiss my understanding of it. i guess we will know for certain at the end of the summer when the lists are out.

 

[MeatHunterrr]

Jesus does not quality as HG player.

If he had joined as 18 year old, then it would be different

 

[GoldenLitefut]

wow, ok, is that the level of hostility of reaponses here? for a well meant point? ok.

valid point on jesus on B-list in february, but, there was really no need to put him on the a-list as he was u21, so fit the b-list criteria. i do still believe he will count as a home grown player this season, as he spent 3 years with us prior to turning 21 (or the season he turns 21 in, which counts too). i.e he can be 22, and if thats his third year, still count as home grown, if he spent 3 years with us up to that point. Including on loan, just like angelino.

my understanding is jesus was bought in the summer and loaned back to his club till december. im sure our club would have known the rules then, and timed it accordingly.

the same applies to zinchenko, his loan time counts, which is why i mentioned it. but as i said, i havent checked that one, depends on the timing of his birthday.

happy to be proved wrong, but i do believe jesus is now home grown. similarly, you are totally welcome to ignore or dismiss my understanding of it. i guess we will know for certain at the end of the summer when the lists are out.

You are wrong.

 

[manimanc]

wow, ok, is that the level of hostility of reaponses here? for a well meant point? ok.

valid point on jesus on B-list in february, but, there was really no need to put him on the a-list as he was u21, so fit the b-list criteria. i do still believe he will count as a home grown player this season, as he spent 3 years with us prior to turning 21 (or the season he turns 21 in, which counts too). i.e he can be 22, and if thats his third year, still count as home grown, if he spent 3 years with us up to that point. Including on loan, just like angelino.

my understanding is jesus was bought in the summer and loaned back to his club till december. im sure our club would have known the rules then, and timed it accordingly.

the same applies to zinchenko, his loan time counts, which is why i mentioned it. but as i said, i havent checked that one, depends on the timing of his birthday.

happy to be proved wrong, but i do believe jesus is now home grown. similarly, you are totally welcome to ignore or dismiss my understanding of it. i guess we will know for certain at the end of the summer when the lists are out.

Great first posts mate, you are going to cause absolutely no trouble on here, none at all.
Can't wait for your third post.

 

[Coatigan]

look, apologies if i Am wrong on jesus. it happens, people get things wrong, particularly on HG rules. Folk on here have said things far more daft, on many topics. As i said, totally happy to be proved wrong.

We signed jesus in august 2016. thats 16-17, 17-18, and 18-19, three seasons he has been with us. half of the first season was on loan, sure, if he was still registered to the club, that counts. he turned 22 in april last year, and if you read the criteria, that season counts, as he was 21 when it started. Definition in full below.

'A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).'


Also, apologies for distracting from chat on angelino. the homegrown number is mentioned on every single player thread, i happen to have responded to this one.

 

[Coatigan]

Great first posts mate, you are going to cause absolutely no trouble on here, none at all.
Can't wait for your third post.

Not my intention in the slightest. And can't see why any of my grand total of 3 posts should. Appreciate the welcome though.

 

[shak]

Yes, I understand the difference. I've played enough Football Manager to learn this lol.

For CL you need 4 of the 8 "HG" players to be club trained (3 years between 15-21). PL just needs 8 association trained "HG" players.

I pointed out in a recent post the that you could hypothetically sign more than 4 association trained HG players to help with that quota for the PL squad, rather than registering U21s (as we have). However, because for CL 4 of them need to be club trained, any player ONLY association trained we have beyond 4 might not be able to play in Europe. If we decide to register any for CL that would push out other non HG players. This is why we only try to keep 4 in the squad.

The reason we have this problem, and why Angelino could be additionally valuable if he's worth registering, is because none of our senior players who actually get games/over 21 are club trained. Foden doesn't count for PL registration because he doesn't have to be registered due to his age, and you don't need club trained players for PL. We register him anyway, but most academy players in the EDS can be registered as association or club trained.

What we have been doing is use 4 of our academy players to help with CL registration and PL.

Angelino, would be the first player in a while (who was the last...anyone actually?) that counts as both a club trained (automatically association trained) and HAS to be registered in order to play (u21s & u20s with the club for 2 years do not need to be registered), whilst I realise Maguire counts for only association trained.

Angelino's value there for us (as would Maffeo, btw) as a result is quite high. Some easy reasons why:

1) Because it actually means you could have more REAL depth in the squad. Maybe it's too much depth, but it allows for more quality to be filled in the squad to help with injuries rather than very young players.

2) Arguably more important is that by having club trained players good enough in the squad there is less pressure to pay mega overinflated fees for a Maguire or other association trained players.

Mate I understand all that. Your post made it sound like you didn't. You're just teaching me to suck eggs at this point.

Waste of time.

 

[shak]

look, apologies if i Am wrong on jesus. it happens, people get things wrong, particularly on HG rules. Folk on here have said things far more daft, on many topics. As i said, totally happy to be proved wrong.

We signed jesus in august 2016. thats 16-17, 17-18, and 18-19, three seasons he has been with us. half of the first season was on loan, sure, if he was still registered to the club, that counts. he turned 22 in april last year, and if you read the criteria, that season counts, as he was 21 when it started. Definition in full below.

'A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).'


Also, apologies for distracting from chat on angelino. the homegrown number is mentioned on every single player thread, i happen to have responded to this one.

Registered means registered to play for us, when he was at Palmieras he was not registered to play for us he was registered to play for them so no he will never be any kind of homegrown. If it worked like that the entire loan army would be club trained homegrown.

 

[WallyA]

This is the Angelino thread. Go talk Jesus thread or get back on topic.

 

[blue oli]

This is the Angelino thread. Go talk Jesus thread or get back on topic.

Said like a seasoned jehova

 

[blueparrot]

Registered means registered to play for us, when he was at Palmieras he was not registered to play for us he was registered to play for them so no he will never be any kind of homegrown. If it worked like that the entire loan army would be club trained homegrown.

Not really a player can be registered as a city player and spend the whole time on loan but be club trained if its 3 years before they are 21. In the case of Jesus he wasn’t registered with us and loaned to Palmeiras, if I remember it was an agreement for him to come to us but he wasn't Registered with us he was just left at Palmieras as a Palmieras registered player for 6 months.

 

[Sir peace frog]

Welcome.
Great start, but actually not much correct.

Jesus qualified for UEFA B list in February still being U21.
Now he is 22 and from now on counts as non-HG for CL and PL.

https://www.mancity.com/news/first-...champions-league-squad-confirmation-knock-out

As of now we have 1 free non-HG spot after Vincent left, reserved for Rodri if you ask me.

Zin came back from PSV 2 years ago. He was never ever close to becoming HG.


Please do your homework first on that difficult HG matter before confusing anyone on here.

Back on topic.

how very german of you

 

[Sir peace frog]

look, apologies if i Am wrong on jesus. it happens, people get things wrong, particularly on HG rules. Folk on here have said things far more daft, on many topics. As i said, totally happy to be proved wrong.

We signed jesus in august 2016. thats 16-17, 17-18, and 18-19, three seasons he has been with us. half of the first season was on loan, sure, if he was still registered to the club, that counts. he turned 22 in april last year, and if you read the criteria, that season counts, as he was 21 when it started. Definition in full below.

'A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).'


Also, apologies for distracting from chat on angelino. the homegrown number is mentioned on every single player thread, i happen to have responded to this one.

tell them all to go and fuck thremselves welcome to bluemoon,

 

[Coatigan]

Registered means registered to play for us, when he was at Palmieras he was not registered to play for us he was registered to play for them so no he will never be any kind of homegrown. If it worked like that the entire loan army would be club trained homegrown.

Isn't that one of the reasons clubs buy young players and loan them out, to let them develop enough to play for them one day, as club trained players?

you may be right, but i thought loans counted. If they do not, (one for the on-topic thread-title police) then angelino would not count as home grown either, as he has only spent 2 partial seasons with the club, all the rest of his time he was on loan?

 

[blueparrot]

Isn't that one of the reasons clubs buy young players and loan them out, to let them develop enough to play for them one day, as club trained players?

you may be right, but i thought loans counted. If they do not, (one for the on-topic thread-title police) then angelino would not count as home grown either, as he has only spent 2 partial seasons with the club, all the rest of his time he was on loan?

Yes loans do count which as you say is why Angelino counts. IIRC Jesus wasn’t loaned to Palmieras so doesn’t.

 

[St.Pauli support]

Not really a player can be registered as a city player and spend the whole time on loan but be club trained if its 3 years before they are 21. In the case of Jesus he wasn’t registered with us and loaned to Palmeiras, if I remember it was an agreement for him to come to us but he wasn't Registered with us he was just left at Palmieras as a Palmieras registered player for 6 months.

Not sure, UEFA and FIFA seem to have a different idea.
At least these parts suggest players have to be registered for the club they are playing for
and also be registered only for 1 club at a time.
That's why loans outside our FA don't add to HG calculations.


"UEFA rules, page 40:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile.../Regulations/02/55/82/79/2558279_DOWNLOAD.pdf
43.02 Each player must be duly registered with their national association as playing for the club concerned
in accordance with the association’s own rules and those of FIFA, notably the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players.


FIFA rules, page 10:
https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...2018-2925437.pdf?cloudid=c83ynehmkp62h5vgwg9g
1. A player must be registered at an association to play for a club as either a professional or an amateur in accordance with the provisions of article 2.

Only registered players are eligible to participate in organised football.
By the act of registering, a player agrees to abide by the statutes and regulations of FIFA,the confederations and the associations.

2.A player may only be registered with one club at a time."



Angelino has been registered for more than 36 months at City (season 2013/14, season 2014/15, Oct '15 - Dec '16) before turning 21
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/angelino/profil/spieler/277179
(without loan spells outside England and Wales)
and counts as club trained homegrown IMO.

 

[blueparrot]

Not sure, UEFA and FIFA seem to have a different idea.
At least these parts suggest players have to be registered for the club they are playing for
and also be registered only for 1 club at a time.
That's why loans outside our FA don't add to HG calculations.


"UEFA rules, page 40:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile.../Regulations/02/55/82/79/2558279_DOWNLOAD.pdf
43.02 Each player must be duly registered with their national association as playing for the club concerned
in accordance with the association’s own rules and those of FIFA, notably the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players.


FIFA rules, page 10:
https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...2018-2925437.pdf?cloudid=c83ynehmkp62h5vgwg9g
1. A player must be registered at an association to play for a club as either a professional or an amateur in accordance with the provisions of article 2.

Only registered players are eligible to participate in organised football.
By the act of registering, a player agrees to abide by the statutes and regulations of FIFA,the confederations and the associations.

2.A player may only be registered with one club at a time."



Angelino has been registered for more than 36 months at City (season 2013/14, season 2014/15, Oct '15 - Dec '16) before turning 21
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/angelino/profil/spieler/277179
(without loan spells outside England and Wales)
and counts as club trained homegrown IMO.

It does confuse a bit reading that. My take is a player is registered with the club that owns the players contract and when loaned out the club he goes to doesn’t own the player or his registration. So even time on loan would count towards his registered club. But not at all certain it would be nice to get clarification from anyone who knows , there must be players out there that have spent a lot of time out on loan and are now either club trained or not club trained. Can’t think of any though.

 

[GoldenLitefut]

Isn't that one of the reasons clubs buy young players and loan them out, to let them develop enough to play for them one day, as club trained players?

you may be right, but i thought loans counted. If they do not, (one for the on-topic thread-title police) then angelino would not count as home grown either, as he has only spent 2 partial seasons with the club, all the rest of his time he was on loan?

We bought Jesus in January. This is where you are wrong.

 

[shak]

Not really a player can be registered as a city player and spend the whole time on loan but be club trained if its 3 years before they are 21. In the case of Jesus he wasn’t registered with us and loaned to Palmeiras, if I remember it was an agreement for him to come to us but he wasn't Registered with us he was just left at Palmieras as a Palmieras registered player for 6 months.

You're right!

You're so right!

Quick lets get Pep on the phone. He'll be thrilled to hear it. Unbelieveable that the club and all other major European clubs missed this loop hole! Fuck me I'm glad a genius walks among us on the forum.

PLAYERS CAN BE REGISTERED TO PLAY FOR TWO CLUBS AT THE SAME TIME. LETS BY HALF OF MESSI BEFORE THE REST REALISE.

Oh no wait, you can't be because that would be fucking incompetent.

 

[shak]

Isn't that one of the reasons clubs buy young players and loan them out, to let them develop enough to play for them one day, as club trained players?

you may be right, but i thought loans counted. If they do not, (one for the on-topic thread-title police) then angelino would not count as home grown either, as he has only spent 2 partial seasons with the club, all the rest of his time he was on loan?

No they buy them and loan them out because then they're cheaper than buying them years down the line. If it was this easy then everyone would be doing it all the time. Look it up.